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Old 11-09-2018, 12:39 PM
bu2
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll View Post
I understand what you are saying about wanting more higher-paying economic opportunities on the Southside.

But apparently, a lot of people (if not most people, judging by the results of Eagles Landing cityhood referendum) do not appear to think that having the Eagles Landing area break apart from the existing City of Stockbridge to form its own new city is the best way to go about trying to court increased higher-paying economic opportunities to the Southern Crescent of the Atlanta metro as a whole.

From the outside (including to the national media, which had picked up on this story), this drive for Eagles Landing cityhood by breaking away from the existing City of Stockbridge had the optics of an affluent white enclave wanting to break away from a predominantly black city to form their own predominantly white and affluent city.

It is also difficult for many to accept the argument that this drive for Eagles Landing cityhood was almost purely for improving the economic development prospects of the Southside when it appeared that forming a new City of Eagles Landing out of the existing City of Stockbridge seemingly would have taken the much of the most prime real estate and land parcels out of the City of Stockbridge and appears that it likely would have left that city in a significantly more challenged economic and financial position, to say the least.

Forming a new City of Eagles Landing out of the existing City of Stockbridge with the state legislature's approval also appeared to potentially have had some implications for Georgia's bond rating because of concerns by investors about how the accumulated debts of the City of Stockbridge would be paid off after a big chunk of that city's most prime real estate had been taken to form a new city.

(...I think that it had been reported that the proposed new City of Eagles Landing might could have taken on a substantial part of Stockbridge's debt, which having a new city start off with so much probably created its own concerns amongst the voters who had to decide on the issue.)

The substantial concerns about potential adverse economic impacts that could result from the financial jeopardy of different parties involved from the City of Stockbridge up to Georgia state government made it challenging to say that such noticeable financial risk was worth it as a means of attempting to improve the larger economy of the greater Southern Crescent of metro Atlanta by basically cannibalizing the existing City of Stockbridge to form a new City of Eagles Landing with a more affluent population.

Plus (like I have expressed before), while the Southside (including the greater Southern Crescent of metro Atlanta as a whole south of I-20) may not enjoy the same exact levels of robust economic development opportunities as the Northside (an area which includes almost all of the greater Northern Crescent of metro Atlanta north of I-20), the Southside still has much going for it, starting with such massive economic assets as the world's busiest airport and a thriving and booming Television and Film Production industry.

There are many parts of this country that would almost kill to have the kind of highly valuable economic assets that a sub-region like the Southern Crescent of metro Atlanta has... Economic assets like:

> The aforementioned world's busiest airport at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport...

> A thriving and booming Television and Film Production industry that includes such extremely high-profile properties like Pinewood Studios in Fayette County, and Tyler Perry Studios on the site of the old Fort MacPherson army base, as well as numerous other studios spread throughout much of the greater Southern Crescent...

> A robust logistics industry that many much less-fortunate communities would kill for, but that some affluent residents in enclaves like Eagles Landing seem to look down their noses at...

> Atlanta Motor Speedway, which holds events throughout the year beyond the auto races that are held there...

> ETC.

Like I have alluded to before, people on the Southside who think that the Southside is inadequate because it does not have the same type of higher-end and robust economic opportunities that the Northside does, really need to put things in perspective and realize that the Southside IS doing very well with the economic assets that it has.

People on the Southside should not think that success only comes in the number of "Cheesecake Factory" restaurants, Trader Joe's grocery stores and upscale retail stores one has when compared to the Northside.

People on the Southside should know that success comes in the form of the Southside being the best version of itself that it can be and not in chasing unattainable goals like attempting to either copy or overtake a Northside of Atlanta that it is not going to be able to copy or overtake.
I thought it was a very bad idea, but it was clearly about Stockbridge cannibalizing Eagle's Landing triggering the drive for a city, not the other way around. It was about a community governing itself.

But decimating the tax base of an existing city was an unacceptable way to go about it. Its good that it failed.
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Old 11-09-2018, 12:40 PM
bu2
 
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I wonder if the Democrats winning House races makes it harder for Vista Grove. They have been working both sides of the aisle, but their primary sponsor was Republican.
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Old 11-09-2018, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Georgia native in McKinney, TX
6,934 posts, read 9,636,450 times
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I still say Eagle's Landing ought to vote as a whole to be annexed into Stockbridge, make the city and area as a whole stronger and in essence take over the whole of Stockbridge. Same name but all new leadership with more expansive city services. Can be the belle of the southside if they would work together. Well, the southeast side. Ain't nobody going to do better than Fayette. Or Coweta. And I say that metro wide.
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Old 11-09-2018, 02:03 PM
 
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Annexation/de-annexation is a solution that doesn't address the problem they're trying to fix.
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Old 11-09-2018, 02:09 PM
 
5,459 posts, read 4,950,177 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
I thought it was a very bad idea, but it was clearly about Stockbridge cannibalizing Eagle's Landing triggering the drive for a city, not the other way around. It was about a community governing itself.

But decimating the tax base of an existing city was an unacceptable way to go about it. Its good that it failed.
That is an excellent point about the existing City of Stockbridge basically cannibalizing a potential City of Eagles Landing by annexing all of the most valuable parcels of land in the geographical footprint of where a City of Eagles Landing might have went.

But to have stopped Stockbridge from annexing the most valuable land in the geographical footprint of a potential City of Eagles Landing, the residents of that would had to have organized a drive for cityhood many years ago before Stockbridge annexed all of the most valuable land in the area.

But even with the defeat of the Eagles Landing cityhood initiative, there is still a way for Eagles Landing residents to exert some political leverage over the government of the existing City of Stockbridge.

Residents of the Eagles Landing area who might be frustrated about the (both real and perceived) ineffectiveness of the Stockbridge city government could do what residents of Northside areas like Buckhead and Peachtree Corners did (before its cityhood) and form a politically powerful neighborhood coalition that covers and represents the geographical area that had been proposed to be part of the City of Eagles Landing.

The Buckhead Coalition has been an effective advocating voice in City of Atlanta proper governance for decades, while the Peachtree Corners coalition was an effective advocating voice in Gwinnett County governance for many years (particularly when it came to zoning issues) before eventually incorporating as its own city as a means of beating annexation attempts by the neighboring incorporated City of Norcross proper.

Forming a politically powerful neighborhood coalition to represent the areas that had been proposed to be incorporated (along the lines of a Buckhead Coalition or an erstwhile Peachtree Corners) would be a good way for the residents of Eagles Landing to force the government of the existing City of Stockbridge to govern better.

Forming a politically powerful neighborhood coalition potentially would also be a good way for residents of Eagles Landing to better advocate and lobby for concessions at the state level.
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Old 11-10-2018, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Georgia native in McKinney, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll View Post
That is an excellent point about the existing City of Stockbridge basically cannibalizing a potential City of Eagles Landing by annexing all of the most valuable parcels of land in the geographical footprint of where a City of Eagles Landing might have went.

But to have stopped Stockbridge from annexing the most valuable land in the geographical footprint of a potential City of Eagles Landing, the residents of that would had to have organized a drive for cityhood many years ago before Stockbridge annexed all of the most valuable land in the area.

But even with the defeat of the Eagles Landing cityhood initiative, there is still a way for Eagles Landing residents to exert some political leverage over the government of the existing City of Stockbridge.

Residents of the Eagles Landing area who might be frustrated about the (both real and perceived) ineffectiveness of the Stockbridge city government could do what residents of Northside areas like Buckhead and Peachtree Corners did (before its cityhood) and form a politically powerful neighborhood coalition that covers and represents the geographical area that had been proposed to be part of the City of Eagles Landing.

The Buckhead Coalition has been an effective advocating voice in City of Atlanta proper governance for decades, while the Peachtree Corners coalition was an effective advocating voice in Gwinnett County governance for many years (particularly when it came to zoning issues) before eventually incorporating as its own city as a means of beating annexation attempts by the neighboring incorporated City of Norcross proper.

Forming a politically powerful neighborhood coalition to represent the areas that had been proposed to be incorporated (along the lines of a Buckhead Coalition or an erstwhile Peachtree Corners) would be a good way for the residents of Eagles Landing to force the government of the existing City of Stockbridge to govern better.

Forming a politically powerful neighborhood coalition potentially would also be a good way for residents of Eagles Landing to better advocate and lobby for concessions at the state level.
Would this not happen even more efficiently if the residents of the proposed city became a part of Stockbridge? Wouldn't this effectively double the population of the city and bring these more affluent residents into the city? What is the point of having an enclave like city with a less than attractive city abutting it to the north? Could not the income of Eagle's Landing make the city of Stockbridge better top to bottom?

And I would say there aren't that many people in the city limits of Stockbridge that are part of Eagle's Landing to make that big of a difference, are there? Wasn't the point that Stockbridge cherry picked the more valuable commerical areas and bypassed subdivsions? To make political hay, would seem the whole of Eagle's landing ought to be in the city.

Maybe a compromise.... change the name of the new entity to Eagle's Landing. Or a compromise: Eaglebridge. Stock Eagle. Bridge Landing. Spread Eagle. Stock Naked.
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Old 11-10-2018, 09:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks View Post
Would this not happen even more efficiently if the residents of the proposed city became a part of Stockbridge? Wouldn't this effectively double the population of the city and bring these more affluent residents into the city? What is the point of having an enclave like city with a less than attractive city abutting it to the north? Could not the income of Eagle's Landing make the city of Stockbridge better top to bottom?

And I would say there aren't that many people in the city limits of Stockbridge that are part of Eagle's Landing to make that big of a difference, are there? Wasn't the point that Stockbridge cherry picked the more valuable commerical areas and bypassed subdivsions? To make political hay, would seem the whole of Eagle's landing ought to be in the city.

Maybe a compromise.... change the name of the new entity to Eagle's Landing. Or a compromise: Eaglebridge. Stock Eagle. Bridge Landing. Spread Eagle. Stock Naked.
Those are excellent points.

I agree that it would be a really good idea if the residents of the proposed City of Eagles Landing became a part of the existing City of Stockbridge proper.

I agree that the income and affluence of Eagles Landing could make the City of Stockbridge better from top to bottom.

I just think that the City of Stockbridge likely is not going to willingly annex the remaining residential areas of the proposed City of Eagles Landing in order to provide a high level of municipal services to the Eagles Landing area.

Obviously, one of Eagles Landing residents main beefs with the City of Stockbridge was the ongoing lack of desire by Stockbridge city government to govern in the robust, more ambitious (and more competent) way that a more affluent enclave like Eagles Landing seems to prefer.

If Eagles Landing is going to get the City of Stockbridge to govern much better, Eagles Landing is going to have to force the City of Stockbridge to govern much better, and the best way to do that will be for the residents of Eagles Landing to stay organized in the form of a Buckhead/Peachtree Corners type of powerful neighborhood coalition that applies relentless pressure to Stockbridge city government to both govern much better and provide a higher level of municipal service.

Staying organized into an active Buckhead/Peachtree Corners-style neighborhood coalition will also help Eagles Landing residents to have more political leverage with a Henry County government and a Henry County state legislative delegation that both appear to be in a state of flux along the rapidly changing demographics of the area.

Affluent Northside enclaves like Buckhead and Peachtree Corners have both been through situations that were similar to what Eagles Landing may be experiencing with larger incorporated areas (the City of Atlanta and Gwinnett County) that were going through major demographic changes that affected the governance of the area.

Being organized into strong and assertive neighborhood coalitions helped Buckhead and Peachtree Corners successfully navigate through those demographic changes of larger surrounding areas.

And being organized into a strong and assertive politically active neighborhood coalition will help the residents of the Eagles Landing area navigate through the continuing rapid and dramatic demographic changes that Henry County is experiencing.
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Old 11-12-2018, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Georgia native in McKinney, TX
6,934 posts, read 9,636,450 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll View Post
Those are excellent points.

I agree that it would be a really good idea if the residents of the proposed City of Eagles Landing became a part of the existing City of Stockbridge proper.

I agree that the income and affluence of Eagles Landing could make the City of Stockbridge better from top to bottom.

I just think that the City of Stockbridge likely is not going to willingly annex the remaining residential areas of the proposed City of Eagles Landing in order to provide a high level of municipal services to the Eagles Landing area.

Obviously, one of Eagles Landing residents main beefs with the City of Stockbridge was the ongoing lack of desire by Stockbridge city government to govern in the robust, more ambitious (and more competent) way that a more affluent enclave like Eagles Landing seems to prefer.

If Eagles Landing is going to get the City of Stockbridge to govern much better, Eagles Landing is going to have to force the City of Stockbridge to govern much better, and the best way to do that will be for the residents of Eagles Landing to stay organized in the form of a Buckhead/Peachtree Corners type of powerful neighborhood coalition that applies relentless pressure to Stockbridge city government to both govern much better and provide a higher level of municipal service.

Staying organized into an active Buckhead/Peachtree Corners-style neighborhood coalition will also help Eagles Landing residents to have more political leverage with a Henry County government and a Henry County state legislative delegation that both appear to be in a state of flux along the rapidly changing demographics of the area.

Affluent Northside enclaves like Buckhead and Peachtree Corners have both been through situations that were similar to what Eagles Landing may be experiencing with larger incorporated areas (the City of Atlanta and Gwinnett County) that were going through major demographic changes that affected the governance of the area.

Being organized into strong and assertive neighborhood coalitions helped Buckhead and Peachtree Corners successfully navigate through those demographic changes of larger surrounding areas.

And being organized into a strong and assertive politically active neighborhood coalition will help the residents of the Eagles Landing area navigate through the continuing rapid and dramatic demographic changes that Henry County is experiencing.
This spotlight pointed out quite clearly that Stockbridge is not a competent city when compared to other suburbs in the metro area. I understand the conundrum. The city is not performing as well as it could so why would Eagle's Landing residents want to be a part? And those in the city might be reluctant to see their voting powers be diluted by a wealthier, more educated voter base added en masse to their rolls. Some that enjoy their power positions on the small scale might not get to rule this larger imagined Stockbridge that would include all of Eagle's Landing. From this small mindset, they have what they want... the tax revenue from the businesses in the area but they don't have to deal with the people.

You and I can sit on the outside and say this would be a great solution to upgrade a whole portion of a county... have a very strong city of Stockbridge that carries the kind of weight of a Smyrna or Dunwwody or Alpharetta or any other strong city on the north side of town. But seems there are attitudes that don't see a bigger picture and people on both sides of this issue are content to complain about their situation but do nothing significant to change.

So, looking at this I am surprised by two things here.... the already discussed precedent setting action that would allow already annexed portions of a city to be de-annexed.... we've discussed that in depth. But with this unexpected window of opportunity before them, I am really surprised that the voters turned down the new city. All of your suggestions of a strong neighborhood coalition are spot on. But if the people there were so inclined to turn down city-hood when it was gifted and rolled out to them, are they the type of community that is going to actively organize a strong neighborhood group with political muscle?
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Old 11-12-2018, 04:23 PM
 
27,950 posts, read 25,010,782 times
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Originally Posted by Saintmarks View Post
This spotlight pointed out quite clearly that Stockbridge is not a competent city when compared to other suburbs in the metro area.
I didn't read that. Obviously it's not an affluent suburb but I'm not seeing an evidence of incompetence.

Consiglio balks at any accusations of racism or bigotry. As far as she’s concerned, Stockbridge is a poorly run city, despite the fact that it was recently honored with an award for Excellence in Financing Reporting by the Government Finance Officers Association. Even Consiglio admits that Stockbridge does have a deep well of financial resources. The city does have several million dollars stored up in a rainy day-type fund, to be used in an emergency, which Consiglio said could be used to pay off whatever debts it has should Eagle’s Landing takes what it wants. The irony is that Eagle’s Landing could be creating the emergency that would cause Stockbridge to have to break open that rainy-day piggybank.

https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/...bridge/571990/
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Old 11-12-2018, 07:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks View Post
This spotlight pointed out quite clearly that Stockbridge is not a competent city when compared to other suburbs in the metro area. I understand the conundrum. The city is not performing as well as it could so why would Eagle's Landing residents want to be a part? And those in the city might be reluctant to see their voting powers be diluted by a wealthier, more educated voter base added en masse to their rolls. Some that enjoy their power positions on the small scale might not get to rule this larger imagined Stockbridge that would include all of Eagle's Landing. From this small mindset, they have what they want... the tax revenue from the businesses in the area but they don't have to deal with the people.

You and I can sit on the outside and say this would be a great solution to upgrade a whole portion of a county... have a very strong city of Stockbridge that carries the kind of weight of a Smyrna or Dunwwody or Alpharetta or any other strong city on the north side of town. But seems there are attitudes that don't see a bigger picture and people on both sides of this issue are content to complain about their situation but do nothing significant to change.

So, looking at this I am surprised by two things here.... the already discussed precedent setting action that would allow already annexed portions of a city to be de-annexed.... we've discussed that in depth. But with this unexpected window of opportunity before them, I am really surprised that the voters turned down the new city. All of your suggestions of a strong neighborhood coalition are spot on. But if the people there were so inclined to turn down city-hood when it was gifted and rolled out to them, are they the type of community that is going to actively organize a strong neighborhood group with political muscle?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
I didn't read that. Obviously it's not an affluent suburb but I'm not seeing an evidence of incompetence.

Consiglio balks at any accusations of racism or bigotry. As far as she’s concerned, Stockbridge is a poorly run city, despite the fact that it was recently honored with an award for Excellence in Financing Reporting by the Government Finance Officers Association. Even Consiglio admits that Stockbridge does have a deep well of financial resources. The city does have several million dollars stored up in a rainy day-type fund, to be used in an emergency, which Consiglio said could be used to pay off whatever debts it has should Eagle’s Landing takes what it wants. The irony is that Eagle’s Landing could be creating the emergency that would cause Stockbridge to have to break open that rainy-day piggybank.

https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018/...bridge/571990/
Mutiny makes an excellent point by pointing out that the City of Stockbridge's apparent good financial condition is prime evidence that city is much more competent than it has been made out to be by the proponents of a new City of Eagle's Landing.

Here is another key passage in the CityLab article about Eagle's Landing's seemingly flawed, misguided and unpopular attempt at cityhood by de-annexing some of the most prime real estate away from the existing 'majority-minority' city of Stockbridge:
Quote:
“I serve on the Henry County zoning board,” said Consiglio, “and so I kept seeing all of these places like Bojangle’s, Waffle Houses, dollar stores, and all this going up in our county. And I was like, why can’t we get a Cheesecake Factory, or a P.F. Chang’s or a Houston’s? We have areas that have high incomes, so what’s the deal?”
As was alluded to and pointed out by multiple posters earlier in the thread, one of the main motivations for the proponents push for a new City of Eagle's Landing was to attempt to lure more higher-end development to the area.

But (as illustrated by the Atlanta Regional Commission map of the wealthiest and poorest pockets in the Atlanta region that the CityLab article posts and links to), the Eagle's Landing area just simply does not possess anywhere near large enough of a pocket of wealth to attract the kinds of high-end and upscale retailers and development that the backers of a controversial proposed City of Eagle's Landing seem to desperately want to attract.

Eagle's Landing cityhood backers seem to desperately want to attract the type of high-end development (like Cheesecake Factory, Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, etc) that is found in multiple locations on the Northside. But the reason that such development exists in multiple spots on the Northside and not in a location like Eagle's Landing on the Southside is because the affluent population base is larger and much more massive across much of the entire Northside/Northern Crescent than it is in a Southern Crescent area like Eagle's Landing and Henry County... Something that is evidenced by the large and widespread pockets of red (for wealth) across the Northside of the map.

Eagle's Landing and Henry County just simply does not have the large/massive population base to attract higher-end establishments (like a Cheesecake Factory, or a P.F. Chang's, a Houston's, a Trader Joe's, etc) that the Northside appears to have in spades.

The problem with a Southside municipality like the City of Stockbridge is not that it is 'incompetent' like the backers of Eagle's Landing cityhood may claim.

The real problem with a Southside municipality like the City of Stockbridge is that it is not located in a part of the metro area like the Northern Crescent where it is going to (often with a very high rate of frequency) attract the kinds of higher-end development opportunities that Northside areas (like Buckhead, Sandy Springs, Dunwoody, Marietta, Alpharetta, Buford, etc) often frequently attract.

Creating a new City of Eagle's Landing by cannibalizing much of the existing City of Stockbridge most likely would have done only a modest amount (at best) to correct that long-term development imbalance between the Northside and the Southside.

If anything, the creation of a new City of Eagle's Landing potentially might have made the economic development situation even more challenging than Eagle's Landing cityhood backers might have liked by creating two fiscally-challenged municipalities with the cannibalized City of Stockbridge and a new City of Eagle's Landing... A new City of Eagle's Landing that likely may have been forced by the courts to take on half of Stockbridge's existing long-term debts along with the more than half of Stockbridge's land area that it was taking.

The uncertainty about the debt and financial situation of both the existing City of Stockbridge and the proposed City of Eagle's Landing (whether Stockbridge would be adversely affected, whether Eagle's Landing would take on new debt and have to create new taxes to pay it off, etc) probably was the factor that made the Eagle's Landing cityhood proposal unattractive to the majority of voters that voted down the proposal.

I also think that one of the main underlying frustrations with the backers of Eagle's Landing cityhood is that Eagle's Landing is a relatively geographically small enclave of affluence surrounded by a sea of neighborhoods in northern Henry County that appears to be increasingly trending more heavily towards working-class/middle-class.

The backers of Eagle's Landing cityhood want to be like the Northside when they are literally located in an area (in Henry County and much of the Southern Crescent of the Atlanta metro) that survives (and even thrives) as a significantly lower-cost alternative to the higher costs amenity-rich areas of the Southside.

Eagle's Landing's problem does not necessarily seem to be one of governance as much as it seems to be one of geography... The geography of being an ambitious small upper-income enclave in a county that is largely geared towards working-class and middle-class workers who can't afford to live in the much more expensive areas of the Northside as well as towards businesses who don't want to pay the higher real estate prices of the Northside.
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