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Old 05-09-2018, 06:43 PM
bu2
 
8,967 posts, read 5,662,084 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fourthwarden View Post
Yes, the entire city gets a vote on something that affects the entire city. That shouldn't be too crazy. Just because Eagles Landing likely wouldn't win that vote doesn't make it inherently unfair.

Besides, I have a whole host of issues with the idea that it's okay for more affluent areas to just up and abandon the poor parts of the cities they're in. All that does is leave poor people with even fewer resources to break cycles of poverty and ignorance and everything else that traps poor people into being poor.

We should be willing to sacrifice some to help those less fortunate than us, especially since it makes us all better off in the long run. We used to be much better at it.

It's the same issue I have with recent cityhood movements in general. They've been gathering all the affluent areas into isolated pockets, and leave the poor people to fend for themselves in ways that leave them even worse off. It's a total failure of social responsibility.
I disagree on the last part. People have a right to form a city. Counties are NOT cities. The unincorporated parts are actually governed in large parts by people in other cities. Its a horrible way to do things.

Pulling out of existing cities is an entirely different matter.

In this case, it doesn't even appear that the areas in Stockbridge had a vote on whether they wanted to leave Stockbridge. That will be decided in an incorporation vote (I'm assuming the bill provides for one) that includes a lot of people outside Stockbridge.
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Old 05-09-2018, 07:10 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,458 posts, read 7,255,582 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
I understand yours. I don't think its relevant, therefore, the Buckhead example is relevant.
As I originally said my original argument can't apply to Buckhead, because it is completely based on systematic annexations that are checkerboard in nature.

That never occurred in Buckhead and doesn't exist as a problem today, so you can't take my original argument and apply to Buckhead.

It matters.

Logic matters.
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Old 05-09-2018, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Historic West End
3,946 posts, read 3,251,184 times
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Eagle Landing is a well thought out planned diverse community. I donít see any problem with the separation to further itís distinction as a excellent community.
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Old 05-09-2018, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, Birmingham, Charlotte, and Raleigh
2,300 posts, read 1,419,946 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgyeldell View Post
I am shooketh!!!!

But besides that this creates a precedent in Georgia that does not look good. This is what they do in Alabama! I thought Deal and his adviser's would not see this as a good thing for the entire state. Hopefully this is a one-off thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsboy View Post
I had the same exact reaction — this is what they do over in ALABAMA! The fracturing of communities is a no-win situation and a terrible precedent for Georgia. Hopefully wiser heads will prevail and pass new legislation that prevents this from getting out of hand.
Pause, this is what you do in GEORGIA! Own it, deal with it, and leave Alabama out of it, period. This is what happens when you throw shade at other states while not keeping an eye on your own state parlor-tricks.

I'm not surprised because this state has an identity crisis, but in denial about it. If you want to know what regional balkanization look like then this is key to the dark journey that has brought down several major metropolitan regions.
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Old 05-09-2018, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
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Here is the harsh reality....

These people never voted to be in Stockbridge, in fact the core residents in Stockbridge never voted to include them.

Stockbridge used petition based annexation procedures from large property owners from 2000-2018 to incorporate those areas. These areas are not a part of the traditional city of Stockbridge or the core of Stockbridge, but new development south of the original city.

They picked and chose what to include and went after high value properties.

They did this in an area that had a self-identification as an area. Businesses, churches, neighborhoods, roads etc... all identify as the area being Eagle's Landing both before, during, and after the annexations.

No one ever voted that originally.

These land grabs make it impossible for any new city to form. The annexations targeted the commercial heart of the area getting further and further away from the original center of Stockbridge.

All this was triggered in a systematic deal where a developer gets a few extra homes in every 10 acres, slightly more sq ft retail space, and an extra curb cut for drive thrus compared to county unincorporated policy. The city then collects the extra tax revenue, has extra expenses, but keeps most high value city-building projects near the old center of town.

Stockbridge grew from 3,300 in 1990 to 9,800 in 2000 to 25,000+ in 2010.

It was new suburban growth, but it was also very fast, aggressive annexation tactics.

In the end you have a checkerboard and there is no way for other citizens in unincorporated areas to form their own city and include the immediate adjacent commercial areas for inclusion to their tax digest.


So now if we take everyone's arguments in the most literal way all a city needs to do to block a self-identified area from forming a city is to quickly do a few core annexations in the middle of that area blocking key pieces of property that would be in the tax digest. All of which citizens never had a vote for to begin with.


To me this is the state going, there is a problem, here we will just let those people to decide in these new checker-board annexed areas to be their own city or stay the course with Stockbridge.


The whole issue is messy in both directions, but at least now the people who live in that whole contiguous area that has a self-identity get to vote one way or another.

Even for those of y'all who ultimately disagree with me, I hope you can at least understand and place some blame at what Stockbridge is/has been doing.



bu2,

difference of opinions aside, the passed bill allows for a vote of 17,000 people to become Eagle's landing. This only includes within the new proposed borders and includes 8000 unincorporated residents and 9000 current stockbridge residents. On the yes vote, the 9000 would be deannexed and included in the new city.


It also calls for a vote of another area of 3500 residents, including commercial area, to join Stockbridge mostly further west of the old city center along GA138. This is an effort to help Stockbridge maintain a cohesive control of the whole commercial strip close to their traditional city center.
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Old 05-09-2018, 08:10 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, Birmingham, Charlotte, and Raleigh
2,300 posts, read 1,419,946 times
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Douglasville is another community that comes to mind as a jurisdiction that poached via annexation economically viable properties along Thornton Road. This is all the while the majority of the land area of the jurisdiction is West and Southeast only connected by narrow strips of land. This is ultimately what sabotaged the former city of Lithia Springs. The jurisdiction couldn't survived when the majority of the commerical zoned properties were checker boarded annexed into Douglasville back in the late 1990s.

Last edited by jero23; 05-09-2018 at 09:08 PM..
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Old 05-09-2018, 08:27 PM
 
1,367 posts, read 1,570,555 times
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No matter what the supposed logical reasons are, it is a HORRIBLE precedent that is being set. The root of the problem is the archaic way that cities in Georgia are allowed to annex land. If "checkerboard" boundaries was the concern, there should have been provisions in the annexation law prohibiting annexation that would create that result.
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Old 05-09-2018, 09:10 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,244 posts, read 4,375,674 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro View Post
Well if you understood the argument, then you wouldn't parallel it to the way you have with your Buckhead argument....


If that is your new argument, then I fundamentally disagree. I think it is unfair for one city to annex preferential tax digest areas that prevents a new city from forming, because it can't incorporate the tax digest areas it would need to be a viable city.

Stockbridge created its own mess in a long series of land grabs in an area that has a unique identity.
If these areas were annexed against their will not long ago, I can see this argument.

However, this is still a bad idea as it sets a precedent that someone is going to be able to stretch to a different circumstance. And it will go from there.
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Old 05-09-2018, 09:46 PM
 
12,905 posts, read 20,974,770 times
Reputation: 4076
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro View Post
...



bu2,

difference of opinions aside, the passed bill allows for a vote of 17,000 people to become Eagle's landing. This only includes within the new proposed borders and includes 8000 unincorporated residents and 9000 current stockbridge residents. On the yes vote, the 9000 would be deannexed and included in the new city.


It also calls for a vote of another area of 3500 residents, including commercial area, to join Stockbridge mostly further west of the old city center along GA138. This is an effort to help Stockbridge maintain a cohesive control of the whole commercial strip close to their traditional city center.

cwkimbro,

I understand exactly what you are saying throughout this thread. Stockbridge brought this on themselves. If they had done this right, Eagle's Landing could've been how like Windward is to Alpharetta.


Anyway, do you have a map link to what you posted above? (in bolded print)
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Old 05-09-2018, 11:04 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,458 posts, read 7,255,582 times
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partially....


I haven't seen a map showing the 3500 residents and the area along GA138 that could vote to join Stockbridge.



This is from a GPB article. (Eagles Landing And Stockbridge: A Tale Of One Community, Two Identities | Georgia Public Broadcasting)


The core issue is the main annexations into Stockbridge are along Eagles landing Pkwy and I-75 and along US23.

Stockbridge has effectively annexed all the commercial land and left a good deal of unincorporated areas, which pretty much prevents any other city from ever forming in the area.


Thinking through this... I'm a bit biased from being Gwinnett. We have so many small cities and many are right next to each other. There is a great deal of good and bad examples, but it doesn't ever seem to be a big deal to people to have different cities with small identity differences so close together..

There is even one odd case where the city of Rest Haven has been trying to cease to exist and join Buford.

Peachtree Corners cityhood was started as a movement from Norcross annexing far less in a mostly contiguous area from its borders. Although, I have some disagreements over the borders of Peachtree Corners. It took in lots of parcels that could have been better served claimed by Norcross, Berkeley Lake, and Duluth.

Still Peachtree Corners has a unique identity and didn't want Norcross selectively annexing commercial parcels, so it is a similar case... but without the pre-existing runaway annexations.


Buford GA has the same problems. They have annexed commercial property approaching the Mall of Georgia and effectively cut off Sugar Hill from being able to annex any areas closer to the commercial corridors.

The big ticket here is Buford has its own school system, so there is a great deal of school property tax receipts at stake in any commercial annexations. Atleast in most other areas that money wasn't affected with county-based schools.

They have also annexed along Peacthree Industrial/Mcever and US23/13 into Hall county very close to Flowery Branch
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