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View Poll Results: Are you in favor of Greenhaven
No to Greenhaven 10 55.56%
Wait for more studies 2 11.11%
Annex into another City 7 38.89%
Yes to Greenhaven 2 11.11%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-13-2018, 07:36 PM
 
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No name calling and no personal attacks - the TOS Is available in my signature line below for review.
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Old 05-13-2018, 08:13 PM
 
589 posts, read 376,763 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
With 300,000 residents Greenhaven could be a huge force in the metro area.
It would be like a metro Phoenix superburb.
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Old 05-14-2018, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Georgia native in McKinney, TX
7,075 posts, read 9,827,268 times
Reputation: 5614
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
With 300,000 residents Greenhaven could be a huge force in the metro area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by goillini8 View Post
It would be like a metro Phoenix superburb.
I can't see that it would really be that much different than what we have now in Atlanta with the unincorporated counties acting like cities anyway. The main difference in "force" would be that it could now call itself a city instead of unincorporated county, would get listed in the list of big cities in America in the census tallies. Nothing really changes on the ground. Might impress some that think that Jacksonville is twice as big as Atlanta because they base things off city population counts and not metro.

For all practical purposes, Georgia ought to allow the suburban counties to call themselves cities and let Atlanta metro have the biggest suburbs in the nation and dwarf the Phoenix ones. Gwinnett, GA, 800k, Cobb, GA and DeKalb, 600k. We could be the answer to trivia questions... What American city is dwarfed by it's suburbus?

In the end is really anything different except that we finally have cities that come close to measuring what a metro population looks like? Considering Atlanta is a good million plus larger than Phoenix MSA, does it matter that 400k plus people live in an incorporated city called Mesa, AZ vs. unincorporated Cobb, GA? Are basic services provided for suburban life in both? One just gets to call itself a city with a population as large as CoA while another doesn't get listed and people list a nearby city because the USPS declared that is their address but those zip code lines have nothing to do with city or county or incorporated or unincorporated.

It boils down to lists and semantics basically.
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Old 05-15-2018, 08:24 PM
 
1,340 posts, read 703,300 times
Reputation: 1827
Just read about another murder/shooting in Candler-Mcafffe today. There's at least 1 per week. Definitely do NOT want that area to annex into Atlanta, and I'm sure Decatur residents don't want that either.

Either keep it unincorporated or pass Greenhaven.
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Old 05-16-2018, 08:25 AM
 
Location: Decatur, GA
60 posts, read 40,266 times
Reputation: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks View Post
I can't see that it would really be that much different than what we have now in Atlanta with the unincorporated counties acting like cities anyway. The main difference in "force" would be that it could now call itself a city instead of unincorporated county, would get listed in the list of big cities in America in the census tallies. Nothing really changes on the ground. Might impress some that think that Jacksonville is twice as big as Atlanta because they base things off city population counts and not metro.

For all practical purposes, Georgia ought to allow the suburban counties to call themselves cities and let Atlanta metro have the biggest suburbs in the nation and dwarf the Phoenix ones. Gwinnett, GA, 800k, Cobb, GA and DeKalb, 600k. We could be the answer to trivia questions... What American city is dwarfed by it's suburbus?

In the end is really anything different except that we finally have cities that come close to measuring what a metro population looks like? Considering Atlanta is a good million plus larger than Phoenix MSA, does it matter that 400k plus people live in an incorporated city called Mesa, AZ vs. unincorporated Cobb, GA? Are basic services provided for suburban life in both? One just gets to call itself a city with a population as large as CoA while another doesn't get listed and people list a nearby city because the USPS declared that is their address but those zip code lines have nothing to do with city or county or incorporated or unincorporated.

It boils down to lists and semantics basically.
Though for planning and transportation purposes I really, really like your idea, however, in the political environment and don't even mention the racial politics involved, it won't happen in two lifetimes here in Georgia. Did you know that Georgia has more Counties of than any other state in the U.S.? Within each of the counties are multiple cities. That means we have hundreds of different police and fire departments. It makes it difficult to track and remove crime in many cases. It makes it really difficult to plan transportation and growth. City of Atlanta is just now nearing 500k due to the tremendous growth in the last 10 years, after dropping down to below 400k. Also, there is perception. Greenhaven sounds like a dying town near Detroit.

As a business owner and an owner of property in the area, if I thought this was a good idea I'd be all over it. Most business owners I've spoken to are against as well. The name alone would scare away any large developer. The motives of Kathryn Rice, I feel, is to get a job. Plain and simple. She has no business background, no business development background. No large businesses are backing her. She doesn't have good will from the current county commissioners and it will be huge failure and I don't want my business taken down with her. I say this because Kathryn Rice is the driving force behind Greenhaven. In 5 years her group hasn't grown at all.

Last edited by travelinFool; 05-16-2018 at 08:29 AM.. Reason: spelling, grammar
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Old 05-16-2018, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Decatur, GA
60 posts, read 40,266 times
Reputation: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forhall View Post
Just read about another murder/shooting in Candler-Mcafffe today. There's at least 1 per week. Definitely do NOT want that area to annex into Atlanta, and I'm sure Decatur residents don't want that either.

Either keep it unincorporated or pass Greenhaven.
East Lake was a war zone years ago so things change and Candler-McAfee (correct spelling) has homes selling in the $300's now and they go off the market in less than a week. You invest in the future, not in the past. There have been a murder, carjackings, and thefts by gun in Decatur within the last 3 years and I don't people saying the same things about City of Decatur nor the media hyping it like they do crime in other areas.
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Old 05-16-2018, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Georgia native in McKinney, TX
7,075 posts, read 9,827,268 times
Reputation: 5614
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelinFool View Post
Though for planning and transportation purposes I really, really like your idea, however, in the political environment and don't even mention the racial politics involved, it won't happen in two lifetimes here in Georgia. Did you know that Georgia has more Counties of than any other state in the U.S.? Within each of the counties are multiple cities. That means we have hundreds of different police and fire departments. It makes it difficult to track and remove crime in many cases. It makes it really difficult to plan transportation and growth. City of Atlanta is just now nearing 500k due to the tremendous growth in the last 10 years, after dropping down to below 400k. Also, there is perception. Greenhaven sounds like a dying town near Detroit.

As a business owner and an owner of property in the area, if I thought this was a good idea I'd be all over it. Most business owners I've spoken to are against as well. The name alone would scare away any large developer. The motives of Kathryn Rice, I feel, is to get a job. Plain and simple. She has no business background, no business development background. No large businesses are backing her. She doesn't have good will from the current county commissioners and it will be huge failure and I don't want my business taken down with her. I say this because Kathryn Rice is the driving force behind Greenhaven. In 5 years her group hasn't grown at all.
Part of the problem with this is changing tactics midstream. We are stuck with an archaic county layout that worked in the 19th century but not practical for the 21st century.... too many small counties. Too big and unwieldy to run as cities, but small enough that they try to act like cities.

The problem with converting the current counties into cities is they are just that... too large to run as cities even though they have taken many of the things that cities do and try and run them themselves. It worked for a time while the counties were developing.... if mid century freeway supported suburban (and I hate to use this overused word) SPRAWL is what you think is a good idea, but for the core city to be hemmed in by the old county run system and then be surrounded by three or four suburban cities that all dwarf it in population? Is that really what would make the area better? But it is what we have had in a practical sense.

That the citizens of Fulton and DeKalb have voted to incorporate into smaller cities proves that the county run system reaches a tipping point. People want their municipalities to have some local sense of ownership. Even in the largest city, Atlanta, the neighborhood system allows for some local level of identity. The counties haven't had that except in the already established cities.

It would be interesting to see what Atlanta would look like if the counties where not as piecemeal and tiny as they are.... if Georgia had about a third of the counties all three times as big.... as you have in Alabama and Florida and many other states. Would the CoA be as hemmed in as it is? Would it have not swallowed Decatur if they weren't competing county seats of separate counties? I would say that Atlanta would at least encompass all the are ITP if it weren't for the too many counties that act like cities scenario we have.

But this is all alternative history. Not sure the recent incorporations and annexations are the answer but I do say they are responses to a system that worked better 150 years ago than today.
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Old 05-16-2018, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Georgia native in McKinney, TX
7,075 posts, read 9,827,268 times
Reputation: 5614
I would add.... if the remainder of DeKalb wants to incorporate into a city, would it not get much more traction to call it DeKalb, GA and not some sad name a developer might have named a subdivision in 1953?
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Just outside of McDonough, Georgia
1,050 posts, read 826,643 times
Reputation: 1281
Quote:
Originally Posted by travelinFool View Post
Did you know that Georgia has more Counties of than any other state in the U.S.?
Texas has 248 counties to Georgia's 159. That said, Texas's size means that the average size of Texas counties is larger than Georgia's and counties there are not responsible for stuff like schools.

- skbl17
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Old 05-16-2018, 04:14 PM
 
108 posts, read 38,589 times
Reputation: 118
I think the proposed city of Greenhaven encompasses too large an area. A name change wouldn't hurt either as I'm sure some people would vote against it based off of the name alone. Though I'm not sure the creation of Greenhaven is the answer, South DeKalb does need additional taxes going into the area for it's schools, and it also needs a business district so that workers and residents are spending money in the area.
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