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Old 06-04-2018, 08:07 PM
 
28,150 posts, read 24,687,439 times
Reputation: 9549

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Operating in traffic the streetcar is just a big bus with a short route. No one is really denying that. Still, political realities and funding being what they are, still better to have got this short section of LRT funded than none at all. Not accepting the federal grant money because we wanted more would have been a bad idea. And honestly I have be going to Sweet Auburn area a lot recently and the streetcar has been super convenient for that (except for when they decided not to run it the day of the Atlanta United game, which of course was exactly what we went to use it to get to.). But there is pretty steady ridership whenever I have been on it lately. More that you usually see on a typical bus which is pretty good consider how short the route is.
Glad it is working out well and yes, you do have to start somewhere.

I guess what disappoints me is how many sleek, modern electric buses we could have gotten for $100 million. That would have truly revolutionized intown transit.
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Old 06-04-2018, 08:31 PM
 
Location: NW Atlanta
4,997 posts, read 3,484,828 times
Reputation: 2647
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
I guess what disappoints me is how many sleek, modern electric buses we could have gotten for $100 million. That would have truly revolutionized intown transit.

Zero because the TIGER grant used as part of the Streetcar funding would never have been disbursed to Atlanta by the FTA for buses.
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Old 06-04-2018, 08:41 PM
 
Location: Decatur, GA
4,909 posts, read 3,713,502 times
Reputation: 2465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulch View Post
Zero because the TIGER grant used as part of the Streetcar funding would never have been disbursed to Atlanta by the FTA for buses.
Ok fine, the $53 Million that we matched to the $47 Million TIGER grant then (100-47=53). Add Arjay to the list of people I agree with here. Maybe it's just because I'm getting old and cynical, but the "starter" line of the streetcar is looking more and more like a total waste. As I've said elsewhere, people WILL ride buses when they go where they need, when they need them, which doesn't mean running them on stupid headways on meandering routes. For $53 Million, that's 66 buses. Or maybe 50 buses and improved stops and lanes. You don't even need that many to serve this corridor in 5-10 minute headways running along Marietta street from COP to Inman Park MARTA so there's plenty left over to dramatically improve other bus routes.


To bring this back to the topic at hand. Atlanta botched its only LRT project to date, why should we trust they'll do any better in the future?
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Old 06-04-2018, 08:52 PM
 
Location: Vinings
5,943 posts, read 2,915,822 times
Reputation: 3183
A light rail line should connect lots of people so that they can get somewhere and get to the main transit hubs of the heavy rail line. As well as connect major activity centers on the light rail line.

Rather than loop a few blocks around downtown. The biggest problem with the streetcar is where it is, and where it isn't. It's not useful to regular people. Maybe just a few confused tourists, who are viewing it more as a tourist ride than anything serious. Especially in this day of Uber/Lyft.

A line from Lindbergh station to Decatur station would be useful. A line from Arts Center to Moore's Mill (if not Cumberland), that would get so many riders and be so successful.

The proposed line from Greenbriar mall to Oakland City would be good. As well as any light rail actually ON the Beltline, not on the streets near the Beltline.

It's frustrating because there's nothing wrong with streetcar/light rail, we just choose these horrible plans that make no sense, and then transit/rail gets blamed by the haters as being inherently useless, which is not true. If you've ever been to Seattle or Charlotte, you know that this light rail stuff can really work.
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Old 06-04-2018, 10:01 PM
 
4,245 posts, read 2,828,753 times
Reputation: 2773
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattCW View Post
For $53 Million, that's 66 buses.
A bus costs $800,000??? Damn!
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Old 06-04-2018, 10:12 PM
 
Location: Vinings
5,943 posts, read 2,915,822 times
Reputation: 3183
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
A bus costs $800,000??? Damn!
That doesn't sound right.

I think a regular old diesel bus costs about $500,000.

Battery electric probably costs on the high end, $800,000.

And CNG somewhere in between.

And community circulators/ smaller buses less than $500,000.
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Old 06-05-2018, 05:17 AM
 
Location: Decatur, GA
4,909 posts, read 3,713,502 times
Reputation: 2465
I was using the high number from a quick Google search, as in a bus with "all the bells and whistles." So if anything, 106 buses further reinforces mine and Arjay's point.
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Old 06-05-2018, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,178 posts, read 16,186,764 times
Reputation: 4908
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
Glad it is working out well and yes, you do have to start somewhere.

I guess what disappoints me is how many sleek, modern electric buses we could have gotten for $100 million. That would have truly revolutionized intown transit.
Would have a E-bus line attracted as much development to the corridor as we have seen since the Streetcar?
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Old 06-05-2018, 07:46 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,178 posts, read 16,186,764 times
Reputation: 4908
Quote:
Originally Posted by primaltech View Post
That doesn't sound right.

I think a regular old diesel bus costs about $500,000.

Battery electric probably costs on the high end, $800,000.

And CNG somewhere in between.

And community circulators/ smaller buses less than $500,000.
Yes E-buses cost that much.
Quote:
Because capital costs are the biggest chunk of BEB lifecycle costs remember, they cost $200,000 to $300,000 more than diesel buses up front

MARTA tested this bus last year. I got the chance to ride it.
https://www.vox.com/energy-and-envir...electric-buses
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Old 06-05-2018, 08:42 AM
bu2
 
8,980 posts, read 5,682,185 times
Reputation: 3540
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
Would have a E-bus line attracted as much development to the corridor as we have seen since the Streetcar?
It would have happened anyway almost certainly just as much of the east and west side are redeveloping.

If not, then it would have happened elsewhere in the city.

Those people are here. You can't just put up buildings and people appear from nowhere. The development would have occurred somewhere.
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