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Old 08-30-2018, 06:57 PM
 
1,367 posts, read 1,570,202 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by autolycus25 View Post
Somehow I glossed over this part and didn't respond before, but a response is important. You are technically correct. However, the expectation that Dekalb pay for all of Phase 2 as well as a chunk of Phase 1 is pretty ridiculous. The City of Atlanta would currently spend ~$500MM in local funds plus an assumed federal match of $393MM for the entire Clifton Corridor. That includes capital costs and operations over the entire projection period. Other sources would be paying something like $1.5-2 billion. That's under the proposal that Beltline Rail Now wants to cut back on. In order to build the entire 22-mile Beltline Loop, the More MARTA local contribution would have to be cut to ~$280MM, including federal match. That's also assuming no LRT on Campbellton Road. That means you're asking Dekalb to cover something along the lines of $1.3-1.7 billion, and Atlanta to cover just $280MM (both inclusive of federal match).

Dekalb will just move right on past the Clifton Corridor like you want Atlanta to do. The people will even make the exact same arguments you are: "That's a regional project not a Dekalb project", "It benefits Atlanta, so they need to pay their fair share", etc.
The people of the city want transit expansion (within the city) and are willing to pay for it to the tune of $2.5 billion. If Dekalb county is not willing to fund transit that is entirely within Dekalb county, then that's on them.
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Old 08-30-2018, 07:21 PM
 
Location: Vinings
5,940 posts, read 2,902,450 times
Reputation: 3178
City of Atlanta is in DeKalb County, too. Phase 1 (the funded phase) of Clifton Corridor is almost entirely within Atlanta. Emory University is in the city limits of Atlanta, with the same sales tax. And some of the line (and the Cheshire Bridge station) is in Fulton. So I don't see the problem with the tax going to fund a line inside the city limits.

What I have a problem with, is the design. They're completely ignoring extending it to Brookwood and the Westside, all in favor of Lindbergh, a rather unremarkable node that happens to be MARTA's HQ.

Designing it with the Armour infill would not cost that much money, and would enable this Purple line to continue to the west.

Also, as cqholt pointed out, it should be a DMU design that could eventually be extended much farther out in the metro. Save the money by running it alongside the railroad tracks the whole way, instead of the tunnels and road widenings and such. That would also speed up the construction time.
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Old 08-30-2018, 07:36 PM
 
Location: Vinings
5,940 posts, read 2,902,450 times
Reputation: 3178
It's really simple, what we should do. You just get a DMU train like TexRail.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadler_FLIRT

Run it frequently, in new tracks alongside the CSX railroad lines, from Downtown Marietta to Downtown Tucker. Along the W&A, then Tilford ROW, then the NW Beltline transit easement ROW, then thru Emory and out thru N Druid Hills and Northlake, out to Tucker. Via a new infill heavy rail/DMU/East Beltline light rail connection MARTA station at Armour, which MARTA already owns. And which can be redeveloped as a more TOD-oriented and more happening neighborhood.

Cobb pays for the portion in Cobb, Atlanta pays for the portion in Atlanta, and DeKalb pays for the portion in DeKalb. And it's the MARTA Purple line. A regional and metropolitan area thing, and also a local neighborhood and city thing, all in one.

That would serve Emory, the Westside, SunTrust Park (via pedestrian bridges and a shuttle bus, I guess), the great Marietta Square, and both Cumberland and Northlake malls.

And if Gwinnett wants in on it, it can extend out to Lawrenceville. If Cherokee County ever wants in, it can extend up to Woodstock.

We make all of this so dang complicated. All we really need is a simple train line, and just some taxes to pay for it. It would like change our whole region, to have that. And it's not even that technically complicated.
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Old 08-30-2018, 07:39 PM
 
1,367 posts, read 1,570,202 times
Reputation: 805
Quote:
Originally Posted by primaltech View Post
City of Atlanta is in DeKalb County, too. Phase 1 (the funded phase) of Clifton Corridor is almost entirely within Atlanta. Emory University is in the city limits of Atlanta, with the same sales tax. And some of the line (and the Cheshire Bridge station) is in Fulton. So I don't see the problem with the tax going to fund a line inside the city limits.
We've already discussed several times that 1/3 of phase 1 is outside of city limits after the annexation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by autolycus25 View Post

I think all of this energy would be better spent pushing for more funding sources rather than fighting over how much of a tiny pie each project gets. Other funding sources that should be pursue: Philanthropic donations to ABI or related entity (both from individuals and from corporations) for parks, trail sections, land, operations, etc. to allow ABI to put a little bit of its budget toward transit, state funds, other potential local tax revenue streams, and, yes, private funds that might help take away some of the public costs of the Clifton Corridor. By the time the NW Beltline is in a more realistic position to move forward in 10-15 years, hopefully enough funds can be identified to finish the loop.


Fortunately, this is a 40-year tax. "By the time the NW Beltline is in a more realistic position to move forward in 10-15 years" we would have a dedicated funding source already in place to build it provided that the project gets put on the list.
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Old 08-30-2018, 07:55 PM
 
Location: Vinings
5,940 posts, read 2,902,450 times
Reputation: 3178
Quote:
Originally Posted by J2rescue View Post
We've already discussed several times that 1/3 of phase 1 is outside of city limits after the annexation.
But the part that matters is where the stations are, not where the line is. All of the planned stations are going to be in Atlanta, except barely the Sage Hill/Briarcliff station, which will serve the Johnson Rd area of Morningside which is in the city.

And the final station at N Decatur, also only just barely outside city limits, and will serve the easternmost stretch of the newly annexed city, out to Clairmont.

Also, keep in mind, eventually all of Druid Hills will probably end up in Atlanta. Those areas are eventually going to annex, rather than end up stuck in some dumb new "city".
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Old 08-30-2018, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Vinings
5,940 posts, read 2,902,450 times
Reputation: 3178
Meanwhile in the City of Atlanta, the currently useless MARTA Green Line should be extended north by one more station up to Huff Rd @ Marietta Blvd, where it would connect with the Purple Line. Which would be like a Westside hub station, and a way for Purple Line trains to have a shortcut transfer into Downtown.

Similarly on the other side, the Green Line could run up to Emory Clairmont and connect with Purple there, and you'd have a like a fully enclosed rail loop.

Plus streetcar-like light rail for the East and South portions of the Beltline.
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Old 08-30-2018, 08:35 PM
 
291 posts, read 90,443 times
Reputation: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by J2rescue View Post
The people of the city want transit expansion (within the city) and are willing to pay for it to the tune of $2.5 billion. If Dekalb county is not willing to fund transit that is entirely within Dekalb county, then that's on them.
I really donít follow you here. The current plan is for Atlanta pay for Phase 1, which has its important stops in Atlanta. Dekalb would then pay for Phase 2.

This argument also sounds an awful lot like the commonly-critiques argument made by North Fulton leaders, ďWeíve been paying this tax for decades but donít get any meaningful transit in our area.Ē Well, yes, North Fulton does get transit and it gets access to other transit. Atlanta gets a helluva lot of value out of the Clifton Corridor, even if not all of tg Clifton Corridor is in Atlanta. Thatís especially true when you consider local funds from Atlanta are a pretty small percentage of the total cost of the CC.
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Old 08-30-2018, 08:50 PM
 
4,240 posts, read 2,816,756 times
Reputation: 2758
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
I agree that NW BeltLine corridor is not a priority.
Boooooooo. I honestly think I will be dead before the NW corridor comes to light. I probably have 30-40 years left in me.
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Old 08-30-2018, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Decatur, GA
4,907 posts, read 3,704,919 times
Reputation: 2460
The problem with the whole idea of "entirely within X" is you're not looking at the big picture. A service that's "entirely within Dekalb County" for example may mean people who would otherwise drive into Atlanta, will now take transit, taking those people off of Atlanta streets. I know for me, if I had the full Clifton Corridor available, I'd likely use it 2-3 times per week instead of driving on Atlanta's roads those 2-3 times per week.
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Old 08-31-2018, 06:56 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,147 posts, read 16,140,747 times
Reputation: 4894
Quote:
Originally Posted by primaltech View Post
City of Atlanta is in DeKalb County, too. Phase 1 (the funded phase) of Clifton Corridor is almost entirely within Atlanta. Emory University is in the city limits of Atlanta, with the same sales tax. And some of the line (and the Cheshire Bridge station) is in Fulton. So I don't see the problem with the tax going to fund a line inside the city limits.

What I have a problem with, is the design. They're completely ignoring extending it to Brookwood and the Westside, all in favor of Lindbergh, a rather unremarkable node that happens to be MARTA's HQ.

Designing it with the Armour infill would not cost that much money, and would enable this Purple line to continue to the west.

Also, as cqholt pointed out, it should be a DMU design that could eventually be extended much farther out in the metro. Save the money by running it alongside the railroad tracks the whole way, instead of the tunnels and road widenings and such. That would also speed up the construction time.
Lindbergh Center Station is the 2nd major transfer point in the MARTA rail system. It has bus connections and is a top 5 station is the # of riders tapping in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
Boooooooo. I honestly think I will be dead before the NW corridor comes to light. I probably have 30-40 years left in me.
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