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Old 09-21-2018, 07:35 AM
 
291 posts, read 90,641 times
Reputation: 162

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
My main concern about Cambellton Rd is not as much which mode they choose but getting the dedicated RoW. I am fine with spending the extra on LRT if they truely get in dedicated RoW on most of the whole route. But I don't think they will. And if not, they need to just stick to the more affordable fake-BRT / ART which can operate in mixed traffic better.
And under the current concepts, not having dedicated ROW along Campbellton Road will affect the entire S Concept, won't it? If I understood the concept correctly, it would basically be one route operated back and forth, just like the existing HRT lines. If so, traffic-induced delays along Campbellton and on the current streetcar route, will probably cause bunching and delays.

So I'm not writing multiple posts... This potential shift is troubling to me. It's like they're deciding to just cut both the Clifton Corridor and BRN now supporters off at the knees. Beltline still won't be anywhere near a complete loop, and Clifton Corridor becomes much more challenging. I hope they've gotten buy-in from someone else to fund the shortfall in the Clifton Corridor because otherwise, this whole thing will just end up with 2 half-assed projects that don't work at all.
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Old 09-21-2018, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,147 posts, read 16,147,338 times
Reputation: 4894
Quote:
Originally Posted by autolycus25 View Post
And under the current concepts, not having dedicated ROW along Campbellton Road will affect the entire S Concept, won't it? If I understood the concept correctly, it would basically be one route operated back and forth, just like the existing HRT lines. If so, traffic-induced delays along Campbellton and on the current streetcar route, will probably cause bunching and delays.

So I'm not writing multiple posts... This potential shift is troubling to me. It's like they're deciding to just cut both the Clifton Corridor and BRN now supporters off at the knees. Beltline still won't be anywhere near a complete loop, and Clifton Corridor becomes much more challenging. I hope they've gotten buy-in from someone else to fund the shortfall in the Clifton Corridor because otherwise, this whole thing will just end up with 2 half-assed projects that don't work at all.
That is correct. The LRT from Greenbriar to Lindbergh, via Campbellton, Westside BeltLine, Westview, Downtown Streetcar, Eastside BeltLine would be operated as a single line.

Connecting Westside and Eastside BeltLine LRT via Southside BeltLine LRT will be a huge win, as it will give a traffic-free, dedicated ROW, transit corridor to southside BeltLine communities which have some of the lowest income and car ownership rates in Atlanta. DeKalb Co is beginning their Transit Master Plan, which could lead to a transit expansion referendum and would matching funds with MoreMARTA Atlanta to compete for federal matching funds to complete the entire CC (Lindbergh to Avondale.)
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Old 09-21-2018, 08:27 AM
 
1,268 posts, read 628,986 times
Reputation: 1684
Why on Earth would a light rail on Campbellton Road have priority over the Clifton Cooridor? Makes no sense. I will be glad to see beltline transit funding but that money should come from the Campbellton Road light rail, not from Clifton. That just seems like such a random project that is totally untouchable despite likely being the least used.
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Old 09-21-2018, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,147 posts, read 16,147,338 times
Reputation: 4894
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forhall View Post
Why on Earth would a light rail on Campbellton Road have priority over the Clifton Cooridor? Makes no sense. I will be glad to see beltline transit funding but that money should come from the Campbellton Road light rail, not from Clifton. That just seems like such a random project that is totally untouchable despite likely being the least used.
Campbellton Rd bus routes have some of the highest ridership in the entire MARTA system. Also, equity in spreading transit investment around the city, not just the higher income and majority white NE quadrant. IMO, the Cmapbellton Rd LRT is a political move by KLB and other city councilmembers to play to their base. High quality BRT, with dedicated lanes, station-like amenities, signal priority would work very well along the corridor, would be built quicker (could be the first project completed), less disturbance to residents and businesses.
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Old 09-21-2018, 09:58 AM
 
1,367 posts, read 1,570,555 times
Reputation: 805
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
Campbellton Rd bus routes have some of the highest ridership in the entire MARTA system. Also, equity in spreading transit investment around the city, not just the higher income and majority white NE quadrant. IMO, the Campbellton Rd LRT is a political move by KLB and other city councilmembers to play to their base. High quality BRT, with dedicated lanes, station-like amenities, signal priority would work very well along the corridor, would be built quicker (could be the first project completed), less disturbance to residents and businesses.
Does KLB have that much influence with the Marta board?
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Old 09-21-2018, 10:01 AM
 
291 posts, read 90,641 times
Reputation: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
That is correct. The LRT from Greenbriar to Lindbergh, via Campbellton, Westside BeltLine, Westview, Downtown Streetcar, Eastside BeltLine would be operated as a single line.

Connecting Westside and Eastside BeltLine LRT via Southside BeltLine LRT will be a huge win, as it will give a traffic-free, dedicated ROW, transit corridor to southside BeltLine communities which have some of the lowest income and car ownership rates in Atlanta. DeKalb Co is beginning their Transit Master Plan, which could lead to a transit expansion referendum and would matching funds with MoreMARTA Atlanta to compete for federal matching funds to complete the entire CC (Lindbergh to Avondale.)
Completely agree that the Southside Beltline is a good project and should be on the project list. I would prefer that to Campbellton LRT. A double-S route system is far better than a single straight-line route, especially when one of them will be in traffic.

I agree that Dekalb should and will soon contribute to the Clifton Corridor, but if Atlanta's More MARTA funding levels are cut from the current public proposal, that's more money that has to come from Dekalb. The amount that Dekalb will be asked to put in was already going to be awfully high. Full build cost (capital only) is likely to be ~$2 billion. If you figure half of that is federal money, then local sources have to come up with ~$1 for capital plus a few hundred million actually operate the line for 40 years. The current More MARTA proposal had CoA contributing $393MM for capital and $110.6MM for O&M. That already has Dekalb contributing >$600MM for capital and I'm guessing somewhere between $110-150MM for O&M? Pare back CoA's contribution significantly, and the demand from Dekalb's local funds could easily approach $800MM. That would be a rather significant proportion of their expansion funds.

As the proposed list looks right now, CoA would use ~20% of it's total More MARTA funds on Clifton Corridor. My very quick look at Dekalb's SPLOST info would suggest a 1/2c there would raise a similar amount to the 1/2 in CoA. If that's right, Dekalb would be currently expected to use 30%. That only goes up if CoA's contribution goes down. Dekalb has lots of projects it needs too. Like I said before, I hope MARTA has been talking to Dekalb officials about this prospect.
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Old 09-21-2018, 01:18 PM
 
4,240 posts, read 2,818,370 times
Reputation: 2758
Campbellton Rd. is so narrow in any places, I don't know how they could do dedicated ROW without taking property from residents and businesses. Certainly an option, but not always easy.
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Old 09-22-2018, 10:12 PM
 
Location: 30080
2,123 posts, read 3,391,623 times
Reputation: 1461
Ironic that campbellton is the main thing that most on here deem "unnecessary."
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Old 09-24-2018, 08:27 AM
 
291 posts, read 90,641 times
Reputation: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by brownhornet View Post
Ironic that campbellton is the main thing that most on here deem "unnecessary."
Do you mean ironic in some way that I'm missing or do you really mean "suspicious"? I'm guessing the latter, so I will respond that I am personally very supportive of Campbellton Road getting a really good improvement in transit services. I just don't think it makes any sense to build a BRT route through that corridor and then later build LRT. Doing one but not the other makes more sense from a resource efficiency perspective. I think BRT makes more sense because of the very limited right of way for a good chunk of the corridor and generally lower density in that area. There really are good technical and financial reasons why some of us are calling for a change to the proposal with respect to that corridor. Most of us are still very supportive of the corridor getting the best transit mode for the area. I think that's BRT. MARTA may think it's LRT. If MARTA has the technical support for that and has a good plan for how to make it work, then great. Let's build LRT down Campbellton from the start and not waste the money on BRT. Because remember, the proposals also call for increased bus service immediately.

So... if you really mean "suspicious", you shouldn't assume the worst motivations from people.
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Old 09-26-2018, 08:25 PM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,147 posts, read 16,147,338 times
Reputation: 4894
Quote:
MARTA will announce the details of its final Atlanta expansion plan on Thursday, The Atlanta Journal-Constitution has learned.

In response to an AJC inquiry, spokeswoman Stephany Fisher confirmed MARTA will submit its recommended project list to Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms and announce it to the public simultaneously.
https://www.ajc.com/news/local-govt-...3fgVLRp5knYpN/
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