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Old 05-21-2018, 05:57 PM
 
1,405 posts, read 1,604,389 times
Reputation: 826

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4Camaro View Post

Yeah but Atlanta needs something to divert truck traffic away from I-285. I-285 is just no longer a bypass anymore, its an inner-city connector highway.

A tolled and limited exits, heavy zoning restricted around access points highway should be able to get the job done so long as zoning restrictions remain stringent enough to keep development away from the corridor. Unrealistic at this point but ever so needed.
Done. And at a fraction of the cost of a big new highway.

New inland port in north Georgia will move thousands of trucks away from Atlanta

 
Old 05-21-2018, 06:38 PM
 
4,505 posts, read 2,985,574 times
Reputation: 2949
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamerD View Post
If you stay in Atlanta only (for the most part), then yes, it would. But what if you like hiking often and you like hiking in N. Georgia, or you like visiting your friends who live all the way in the boonies...public transport doesn't get you everywhere and I'm not saying that it does in other major cities. I used to live in Atlanta and public transport was really really horrible.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Slow your roll. It's easy to deal with that. You just need to change the activities you like to do, change your friends, change your career, and maybe tell your family that you aren't going to visit much any more. So easy!

Quote:
Something I find interesting with Atlanta and the Metro area is that...I remember it used to be the thing to be in the suburbs and so communities were/are built out and they have a lot going on. I see a ton of things happening in the suburbs. A lot of people aren't willing to keep themselves caved in Atlanta just to live a car-free lifestyle.
Yeah..it's probably a lower single-digit percentage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4Camaro View Post
and before you go off ranting...Give me one single example where this has not happened.
They'll use the example of Tokyo. It's city population has grown by a whopping 19% in the last 50 years, and has declined in the last five years. But, that's apparently proof of increasing population not raising housing costs. Of course there are the economic factors at play in Japan which are leading to a lot of this.

Quote:
Yeah but Atlanta needs something to divert truck traffic away from I-285. I-285 is just no longer a bypass anymore, its an inner-city connector highway.
285 is essentially just a "truck sewer".

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
This isn't Soviet Russia. If you are letting your job pick you instead of you picking your job you are doing it wrong.
Wait, are you saying you can just walk out and get any job you want whenever you want? That's pretty spectacular. You must be a damn sorcerer!
 
Old 05-21-2018, 06:47 PM
 
1,261 posts, read 545,511 times
Reputation: 1052
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
This isn't Soviet Russia. If you are letting your job pick you instead of you picking your job you are doing it wrong.

You may not like your choices, but you have choices.
Okay wise guy...

I spent $120,000 in student loans and educational related expenses and certifcations for my current career.

Oooops I did it wrong...I should have became a burger flipper so I can work at the local McDonalds just to keep a car off the road so I could work local to my job and succeed at the jsvh epidemic as my life goal should have been!

Forget the fact that I've worked for 4 different Fortune 100 Companies to this date and the fact that these companies pay incomparably higher salaries than anything I could have locally to my residence or the fact that I might actually need that income to pay off some of that student debt incurred from actually trying to be an educated citizen in the populous.

I messed up my life... I should have just stayed home, kicked open some comics, and took MARTA to McDonalds....or Wal-Mart if they weren't hiring. shame on me...
 
Old 05-21-2018, 06:57 PM
 
4,505 posts, read 2,985,574 times
Reputation: 2949
Quote:
Originally Posted by J2rescue View Post
Done. And at a fraction of the cost of a big new highway.

New inland port in north Georgia will move thousands of trucks away from Atlanta
So, they're moving a huge inland port to a small rural town 15 miles (probably at least 20 driving miles) from the closest interstate and routing all that truck traffic down small highways and through towns? Whose great idea was that?!!?

Last edited by samiwas1; 05-21-2018 at 07:59 PM..
 
Old 05-21-2018, 07:04 PM
 
1,261 posts, read 545,511 times
Reputation: 1052
Quote:
Originally Posted by J2rescue View Post
Done. And at a fraction of the cost of a big new highway.

New inland port in north Georgia will move thousands of trucks away from Atlanta
Thats cool and all but nothing to parade over as this is a comparison for the ENTIRE STATE, not just the metro. Atlanta itself will see a reduction of truck traffic of maybe about 1/16th of that number - spread throughout the metro evenly...or in other words... Its not going to be a mind blowing difference... Also, just to give you an idea as to how few trucks that really is... from your own link:

Quote:
If the inland port takes just 50,000 trucks a year of the roads, an average of 137 trucks a day that won’t be passing through metro Atlanta on I-285 and the I-75 corridor, according to a quick calculation of the port’s figures. The number presumes trucks travel each day of the year.

137 Trucks per day...throughout the ENTIRE METRO... *ASSUMING* that said truck passes through the metro every day of the year (which is highly unrealistic as most don't.) meaning the average could realistically fall into something much less...
Where as I-285 TOP END ALONE see's over 200,000 vehicles per day...
Basically...you won't even notice it or realize it happened.

Now its not BAD that the port expanded capacity, but don't expect it to magically solve all of Atlanta's trucking woes. That is not what it was intended for.

Remember...there is no free lunch. You get what you pay for.

Last edited by Need4Camaro; 05-21-2018 at 07:27 PM..
 
Old 05-21-2018, 07:54 PM
 
1,261 posts, read 545,511 times
Reputation: 1052
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
You respond while not actually responding

You do better if you actually try to explain how it not their fault

Your post is like you tried a straw man of me as if I said do not like car drivers, and it has nothing to do with the word "fault"

'fault" meaning they are the cause of their own distress..............No where in your quote above did you actually address that point.
I was hoping you would be able to detect sarcasm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
If you choose to live a suburban lifestyle you are choosing traffic....... That is con to that situation... It's like saying I want to keep my lights on all night but don't expect the bill to be high........ You can't have it both ways. And that is being "realistic"....
Bad example.

Here's a better one...

You live in an area with plenty of sun light, you and ten other people settle in this area and build a solar panel to power your homes.

a year later, 200 more people move around the vicinity and share the same solar panel...There's still plenty of sun...

Another year later 500 people move in and share the original solar panel... Now there's starting to be brown outs... You suggest building more solar panels to accomidate the new power consumption, they suggest...No, they need to move someplace where there's available power...

Another year passed, 1,000 more people move in...now there's power outages, blackouts / brownouts are common, noone's getting power, people are frustrated, you ask...we have plenty of sun...why arent we building more solar panels... they reply "Because, it's not my problem."

And this ideology is what leaves this city in the dark...literally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
And Yes the more sprawl a place is cause more people to drive distance.. Atlanta urbanized area sprawls more than Chicago even though Atlanta is 3 million less. This mean higher density of people by defualt are living closer their job in Chicago than people do in Atlanta.
I'm sorry but this is far from true, the metro of Chicago could easily fit two Atlanta metro's within itself. Chicago sprawls nearing Milwaukee Wisconsin WELL into Indiana taking up the proximity of three different states and offers efficient transit within all three of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
Again you making my point it's own there fault......

There pro and cons to transit, there are pros and cons to cars....... You expecting just the pro to a suburban life style but not excepting the cons.

Your telling me how great suburban living is.......... but complain about Traffic. but Failing to understand that lifestyle manifest the traffic.
There's a difference between a "CON" and blatant "NEGLECT" a big difference. What Atlanta is doing is more along the lines of "NEGLECT" yes there is a con to both suburban lifestyle, or living in the city, or close to your job... But what Atlanta has done is literally ignored the needs of BOTH, and before you interject that living close to your job would immediately solve your commuting needs, When was the last MARTA expansion? There is no difference in catering to transit and the needs of whose who live close to their job, and those who live further away and need to commute. BOTH have needs of which need to be addressed by the city.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
This post above makes no sense...... the quote you replied has nothing to do whether I like grids or not.... but rather the reality that Atlanta is not grid and nothing can change to make the metro a grid.

What yall are doing is crying over metros that are grids which is pointless and doesn't help the situation. The question becomes what to do now? Yall say roads....... OK..... Where? there literally no place to put these roads, Neighborhoods already block paths of new roads the only way is unless neighborhoods are raze... And if that's your views lets started with your community and home first?
I already moved out of Atlanta so by all means go ahead and mow down that vacant property... That aside, TRUTHFULLY...even if I still lived in Atlanta today...I would have GLADLY sacrificed my home if I heard Atlanta was making a serious proactive move to increase transportation capacity (Road OR Rail) throughout the metro. It would be a small sacrifice to an ever so needed progression toward the metro area.

I can understand if many do not want that, however; the problem I have with that is, Atlanta had the opportunity to address many of its transit needs early on but they just let it go. Now the conscience after they allowed millions of people to move here and blatantly ignored ANY logical sense of infrastructure to support them...is its THEIR FAULT... yeah... I'm going to just eat that...right... They can still "build" highways even today, it just won't be cheap or easy as it would have been decades ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
The reason I brought up DC and Boston because metro Atlanta's lay out more similar to them. So it make sense for Atlanta to follow a path that is possible, Then complain over a pointless impossible path of looking at LA.
Atlanta has no noteworthy accomplishments over traffic mitigation over the LA area which is 3 times larger and far more populated. Atlanta loses here...Sorry but it does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
There several flaws with this because you left out so many variables in life

There a difference between not affordable and wanting more. People want to live above their means, They want the largest house for the cheapest they can can get it. You don't have to take the "average" price range, you can go cheaper. That call a choice... You can get a cheaper car, cheaper House...... So what actually happen in this situation you choose opp out getting something affordable closer to work....... because you wanted something else further out. Because if you wanted a house in Alpharetta for 200k you could had got it, So it had nothing to do with affordability but rather what you wanted out that 200k "choices"

Another thing is where in Gwinnett? I play along lets say some one can't afford Alpharetta but does that mean they have live in Buford? Noooo. If someone live far from there Job and they sit in Traffic it's there own fault and choice. And trying best to dodge self responsibility.

I like Ice cream but if eat bunch of Ice Cream I would gain weight or be sick right? that how life works

You like Suburban sprawl ok find but don't blame anyone for sitting in traffic. You choose the package deal that include traffic.
Sorry but I covered quite a range. I gave you a fair price for a signifcantly used automobile and instead of using the fair price, I used a EXPENSIVE new car, below average fuel consumption, and high insurance...and we still came out over $100,000 cheaper... you can get a slightly cheaper home in Alpharetta...but you can do the same in Gwinnett.. Comparing apples to apples... commuting will always be cheaper...you can throw your life away and live close to work in an apartment studio and be closer to work...but that aint going to happen if you have a family, have children you need to take to school, and so forth...when for the same money you can buy a HOUSE to accomidate your family needs, further away from a job center...

You just want to be "right" ..but you have no logical basis to back up your ideal with REALISTIC data..thus your ideal will always be a dream..and a dream only.

you can beat at this all you want...but you're not going to make up for a $100,000 + gap in lifestyle differences.

Last edited by Need4Camaro; 05-21-2018 at 08:17 PM..
 
Old 05-21-2018, 09:08 PM
 
4,505 posts, read 2,985,574 times
Reputation: 2949
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
And Yes the more sprawl a place is cause more people to drive distance.. Atlanta urbanized area sprawls more than Chicago even though Atlanta is 3 million less. This mean higher density of people by defualt are living closer their job in Chicago than people do in Atlanta.
Chicago Urban: 2,122.8 square miles
Atlanta Urban: 1,963 square miles (8% smaller than Chicago)

Chicago Metro: 10,874 square miles
Atlanta Metro: 8,376 square miles according to wikipedia, 9,078 square miles according to individual county pages (17% smaller than Chicago using the high number)

Chicago Metro Density: 874/sq mi
Atlanta Metro Density: 691/sq mi

About 3,300 square miles of Atlanta's metro (40%) has an average density of 92/sq mi (7 acres per person). Thats It's straight up rural farmland. 6,100 square miles of our metro (67%) accounts for only 25% of the population. That leaves about 4.4 million people living in a 2,970 square mile area of Atlanta's Metro, or about 1,480/sq mi. That's 75% of our population living within 30 miles of downtown. About 63% of our population lives in just five core counties, comprising just 19% of the metro. And most of those live closer to the core.

Chicago's metro density is 26% higher than Atlanta's, which would mean they have more people further out. But, they also have more people closer in.

But, you are incorrect in saying that Atlanta sprawls more than Chicago. It does not.
 
Old 05-22-2018, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,697 posts, read 16,716,358 times
Reputation: 5102
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
Well the Northern bypass would mainly benefit those people who already live out there. Tolls would pay for most of it. That transit network would do very little for those people and its operations would be subsidized probably 75-80%. And if it was a serious HRT network, you could probably only do the Clifton Corridor and Red line to Alpharetta for that cost (maybe not). $250-$350 million a mile is a lot more than the $30-40 million or so a mile for the highway.


As for numbers-http://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-info/spd/cda/sh99-hi/project-sheet.pdf
Texas is building 37.5 miles of Houston's 3rd loop for $1.28 billion. The Clifton corridor with light rail is projected to cost nearly $2 billion for about 7 or 8 miles.
I seriously doubt tolls would ever pay the BILLIONS it would cost. Tolls aren't going to pay for the nearly $1B price tag of the NW Corridor and that was in existing ROW. Northern Bypass would require huge amounts of land acquisitions, bridges, grading, etc. Which I suggest deferring not to HRT network, but expanding the existing railroad corridors and building a commuter/intercity railroad system, with TOD at the stations to offset the costs (you know like Brightline is doing in Florida.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
So, they're moving a huge inland port to a small rural town 15 miles (probably at least 20 driving miles) from the closest interstate and routing all that truck traffic down small highways and through towns? Whose great idea was that?!!?
Moving freight via rail is far more efficient than semi truck and gets the freight traffic that currently cuts thru metro Atlanta outside of it, also provide much needed jobs in NW GA.
 
Old 05-22-2018, 11:35 AM
 
4,505 posts, read 2,985,574 times
Reputation: 2949
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
Moving freight via rail is far more efficient than semi truck and gets the freight traffic that currently cuts thru metro Atlanta outside of it, also provide much needed jobs in NW GA.
I totally get that part. That makes total sense and is a very good idea. That's not what I'm concerned about. I just find the end placement of it odd. It's literally in rural farmland, not near any major road. A huge truck freight port not near any decent road infrastructure. Maybe they're going to build a road from 75 to the port. Otherwise, some small towns are about to get inundated with freight traffic.
 
Old 05-22-2018, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,697 posts, read 16,716,358 times
Reputation: 5102
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
I totally get that part. That makes total sense and is a very good idea. That's not what I'm concerned about. I just find the end placement of it odd. It's literally in rural farmland, not near any major road. A huge truck freight port not near any decent road infrastructure. Maybe they're going to build a road from 75 to the port. Otherwise, some small towns are about to get inundated with freight traffic.
US 411 is a major road, trucks use it as a I-75 bypass of Chattanooga. It's also flatter than I-75 as it follows the valley.
US76 is 4-lane from Dalton Bypass to US 411.
I am sure people much smarter than us at GPA researched this. I mean they have made Savannah one of the fastest growing ports in the US.
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