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Old 05-22-2018, 01:11 PM
 
4,555 posts, read 3,010,091 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
US 411 is a major road, trucks use it as a I-75 bypass of Chattanooga. It's also flatter than I-75 as it follows the valley.
US76 is 4-lane from Dalton Bypass to US 411.

The last bit of 411 is 2-lane with 11' lanes. The rest is essentially just large a surface street through town areas until it hits 76. It's over 20 miles to get to the interstate. Sorry, in my opinion...that's just a really strange place to open a major port. It's literally adding hundreds of trucks per day through small towns' surface roads.

Quote:
I am sure people much smarter than us at GPA researched this.
That's what we tried to say about I-485...

Quote:
I mean they have made Savannah one of the fastest growing ports in the US.
The port of Savannah is right on the water, and has two separate 4-lane divided highways (one mostly limited access) leading directly from it to the interstate 4 miles away. I don't see why that's a comparison.

Last edited by samiwas1; 05-22-2018 at 01:25 PM..

 
Old 05-22-2018, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,783 posts, read 16,779,970 times
Reputation: 5133
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
The last bit of 411 is 2-lane with 11' lanes. The rest is essentially just large a surface street through town areas until it hits 76. It's over 20 miles to get to the interstate. Sorry, in my opinion...that's just a really strange place to open a major port. It's literally adding hundreds of trucks per day through small towns' surface roads.



That's what we tried to say about I-485...



The port of Savannah is right on the water, and has two separate 4-lane divided highways (one mostly limited access) leading directly from it to the interstate 4 miles away. I don't see why that's a comparison.
Port of Savannah is 18 miles upstream from the Atlantic Ocean, some would say that's not an ideal location for a port and causes unnecessary dredging.
Same state authority over both of them.
 
Old 05-22-2018, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
1,859 posts, read 2,076,439 times
Reputation: 2056
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Not true. They will continue to use our existing road network just like they do everywhere else in the world even places that have done far more aggressive road diets that Atlantans would ever imagine.

The traffic apocalypse is overhyped. People will find alternatives and goods will still get delivered. We need to focus on capacity and to do that we need to alternatives that are more efficient than roads.





That is kind of how trains work. One light rail lane can handle as much capacity as a 12 laned highway (and heavy rail can do multiple times that).

When we are talking about things like adding light rail along the Beltline or to Emory you got to imagine that is the same as a 12 laned highway right to the front door of these destinations. Complaints about transit vehicles being mostly empty are quite ridiculous because they are simply a testament to how much capacity transit has.

There is no way you are getting a 12 laned highway thru both sides of intown Atlanta and Emory, but with options like light rail we can add the equivalent capacity in a smaller space.

That should also show why road diets / giving up car RoW for alternatives makes so much sense. If you could turn two lanes on a road into the equivalent of twelve lanes without needing to encroach into anyone's front yard or take a single sq ft of emanate domain, why are we not doing that for every road that is reaching capacity? We should.



Roads / cars alone will never be able to satisfy the capacity for people in a large city.

Your 15 wait in traffic and those "bilions and billions in lost productivity" will only get worse and worse. Roads simply cannot do the job alone.
Show me one example of rail that's moving people per hour than a 12 lane highway.

Show me one example of conveyer-belt _(joined cars without any gaps) that are continuous (i.e. no wait times between trains where no through put in occurring, Even the NYC subway has waits of at least 5 minutes.

But the above waits and number of rail cars are irrelevant if more people are moved within a given amount of time, which will be tough since highway lanes functioning normally put through over 1,000 cars an hour PER LANE.

Raleigh's Beltline (it's inner highway loop) was moving 1,300 cars per lane per hour before it was widened in 1993.

So I doubt that any US rail moving 5,000 (5 lanes) people an hour except for ultra-dense NYC.

Regarding the term "Road Diet", do you really understand what it means and why it's implemented?

As I understand it, it's about reducing lane width to calm, slowdown motorists, increase safety, and perhaps share a road with bike lanes.

It's ridiculous to say, "Oh I hear road diets work, let's start doing that, it will solve our problems with 2 million more people on the way to our huge, spread out metro over 35 counties."

NOBODY EVER SUGGESTED OR WANTS A 12 LANE HIGHWAY INTOWN.

But Atlanta is a beautiful suburban big city and people move here to enjoy the landscape and raise families with at least a small piece or adjacency to that landscape.

WHEN D.C. and the nation's wealthiest counties (which are in Northern Virginia) can barely afford one new silver line extension,

all of y'all have to remember even a few new heavy rail lines would cost tens of billions to construct & cost $7-8 per ride to be sustainable.

And light rail is slow as h*ll, even though I WANT THESE TO BE BUILT IF NOTHING ELSE, so the price will be time that it takes to transfer and travel.

And a minimum of $3-5 per trip.

And don't forget the MTA in New York owes and make payments on about $29 billion of old debt, and it's the fifth largest ingle debtor in the US. Only the states of CA, NY, MA, City of NY (and 1 other) owe more that it does, because each passenger trip really costs over $10 on NYC Subway.

Last edited by architect77; 05-22-2018 at 04:12 PM..
 
Old 05-22-2018, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
1,859 posts, read 2,076,439 times
Reputation: 2056
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
And it easy to tell you couldn't, because you didn't respond, I address what you said and more. "what I said was true." not remotely


Again your still thinking about commuters even when your started talking about transit your still talking about just the commuters. And that's the flaw...... What about the neighborhoods they are commuting though and to?

Some one commuting in a car would bring traffic and make an area less pedestrian friendly, that is not the situation with transit. so no they are not the same.

So if a community wanted to make there area more pedestrian friendly it's in their right to do so, The "entitlement" comes in that you believe car commuters can tell another community..... no!............. build us wide roads, make a more car oriented area, add more parking a lots,...... because they say so..... this make no sense.

So your statement "what I said was true" is not because transit riders would working the commuted to neighborhoods agenda. While car commuters would be conflicting with the commuted to and through neighborhoods..
The number one requirement for walkability is having stores selling the essentials and food, coffees, within walking distance.

This happens in NODES, which are coming along very well in Atlanta.

Here again, "walkability" cannot be blanket-ly applied to such a huge metro area as a case against highways.

SHOW ME ONE OTHER US METRO AREA WITH 3 MILLON PEOPLE (Northern Metro Atlanta Counties' population) WITH ONLY ONE EAST-WEST FREEWAY (I-285 that is clogged 16 hours a day)

Along with rail, bikes, skateboard accommodations, A parallel to Top End I-285 s WAY PAST DUE.
 
Old 05-22-2018, 04:13 PM
bu2
 
9,336 posts, read 5,976,446 times
Reputation: 3756
Quote:
Originally Posted by J2rescue View Post
Done. And at a fraction of the cost of a big new highway.

New inland port in north Georgia will move thousands of trucks away from Atlanta
That's a good thing.

But there plenty more that could be done.
 
Old 05-22-2018, 04:21 PM
bu2
 
9,336 posts, read 5,976,446 times
Reputation: 3756
Quote:
Originally Posted by architect77 View Post
The number one requirement for walkability is having stores selling the essentials and food, coffees, within walking distance.

This happens in NODES, which are coming along very well in Atlanta.

Here again, "walkability" cannot be blanket-ly applied to such a huge metro area as a case against highways.

SHOW ME ONE OTHER US METRO AREA WITH 3 MILLON PEOPLE (Northern Metro Atlanta Counties' population) WITH ONLY ONE EAST-WEST FREEWAY (I-285 that is clogged 16 hours a day)

Along with rail, bikes, skateboard accommodations, A parallel to Top End I-285 s WAY PAST DUE.
As for tearing down houses, I never heard anyone complain about destroying that 50-60 home neighborhood north of Decatur between Scott Blvd and N. Decatur and Church St. They put up giant 5+1 apartment complexes and some retail. And didn't do a thing about the stupid 3 street intersection (Scott/N. Decatur/Medlock) they have there despite adding a Walmart. Took down every single house. And those streets were quiet. Few people used them to go between Scott and N. Decatur.

Yet people get up in arms about widening a street or highway.
 
Old 05-22-2018, 05:56 PM
 
4,555 posts, read 3,010,091 times
Reputation: 2965
Quote:
Originally Posted by architect77 View Post
The number one requirement for walkability is having stores selling the essentials and food, coffees, within walking distance.

This happens in NODES, which are coming along very well in Atlanta.
It happens in nodes, or in extremely high density. Yeah, there's a pizza joint or a deli on nearly every block in NYC, but they have a density of like 30 times ours. Ain't nobody want that!

If you evenly spread medium density all over the place and want to have transit take care of moving people, your network has to be huge and everywhere. You can serve many more people much more efficiently with fewer lines (much less $$$$) if you concentrate people and destinations into nodes.
 
Old 05-22-2018, 10:14 PM
 
2,526 posts, read 1,199,783 times
Reputation: 1924
So I read an article and thought of this thread. It relates to this thread because it talks about the importance of public transport:



How to spur the US economy, according to mayors of Chicago and Newark - Business Insider


This article could also go in other threads that address inequality in Atlanta.
 
Old 05-23-2018, 12:08 AM
 
4,376 posts, read 4,254,130 times
Reputation: 3373
Quote:
Originally Posted by architect77 View Post
The number one requirement for walkability is having stores selling the essentials and food, coffees, within walking distance.

This happens in NODES, which are coming along very well in Atlanta.

Here again, "walkability" cannot be blanket-ly applied to such a huge metro area as a case against highways.

Along with rail, bikes, skateboard accommodations, A parallel to Top End I-285 s WAY PAST DUE.
1. My post is not "case against highways." ........ So not only is your post inaccurate your whole argument above have nothing to do with my post. I would be for Highways in the enter metro if was possible it's not. No poster yet has volunteer their homes, properties, and neighborhood to razed to make new highways.

2. I mention walkablity as if a neighborhoods desire to walkable it's their right to do, walkablity involves pedestrian friendliness. This may involve narrows road and slow speeder limits. This also can mean lesser parking lots and more density stores and etc in their place.

My point was if neighborhood A wants to be more pedestrian friendly, People who chose to live in Neighborhood B a more suburban car oriented life style do not have right to tell neighborhood A to design their neighborhood more car oriented for their commute.

3. My other point is you get what you ask for...... Traffic is a con that go with living a suburban lifestyle commuting distance, If you don't like it change your life style, stop blaming the government for your choice.

Quote:
SHOW ME ONE OTHER US METRO AREA WITH 3 MILLON PEOPLE (Northern Metro Atlanta Counties' population) WITH ONLY ONE EAST-WEST FREEWAY (I-285 that is clogged 16 hours a day)
As stated repeatedly it's not just Atlanta, Metro Atlanta is design similar other large metro in East cost states. Largely the Northeast and Piedmont cities.

The metro West of the red line are largely grided and have a lot freeways,

The Metro East of the red line are not grided and tend to have less freeways.
[IMG][/IMG]

They many have a few others freeways here and there but nothing drastically different.




Large Cities West of the red line tend to be grids, Freeway obsessed






The point I was making there no point of crying, Atlanta can not and never will have the road network of Houston, DFW and LA those metro area are essentially built different.

Boston and DC may not have the road network of DFW, LA and Houston. But other areas like transit, and general more live work play areas excel over DFW, LA and Houston. Atlanta can't follow Houston design but Atlanta can follow DC and Boston.

So No I'm not against roads I'm for road improvement in some areas, but I'm in reality Atlanta is limited with what the region can do improve with roads. So the metro area need to look at alternative means.
 
Old 05-23-2018, 07:46 AM
bu2
 
9,336 posts, read 5,976,446 times
Reputation: 3756
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
1. My post is not "case against highways." ........ So not only is your post inaccurate your whole argument above have nothing to do with my post. I would be for Highways in the enter metro if was possible it's not. No poster yet has volunteer their homes, properties, and neighborhood to razed to make new highways.

2. I mention walkablity as if a neighborhoods desire to walkable it's their right to do, walkablity involves pedestrian friendliness. This may involve narrows road and slow speeder limits. This also can mean lesser parking lots and more density stores and etc in their place.

My point was if neighborhood A wants to be more pedestrian friendly, People who chose to live in Neighborhood B a more suburban car oriented life style do not have right to tell neighborhood A to design their neighborhood more car oriented for their commute.

3. My other point is you get what you ask for...... Traffic is a con that go with living a suburban lifestyle commuting distance, If you don't like it change your life style, stop blaming the government for your choice.



As stated repeatedly it's not just Atlanta, Metro Atlanta is design similar other large metro in East cost states. Largely the Northeast and Piedmont cities.

The metro West of the red line are largely grided and have a lot freeways,

The Metro East of the red line are not grided and tend to have less freeways.
[IMG][/IMG]

They many have a few others freeways here and there but nothing drastically different.




Large Cities West of the red line tend to be grids, Freeway obsessed






The point I was making there no point of crying, Atlanta can not and never will have the road network of Houston, DFW and LA those metro area are essentially built different.

Boston and DC may not have the road network of DFW, LA and Houston. But other areas like transit, and general more live work play areas excel over DFW, LA and Houston. Atlanta can't follow Houston design but Atlanta can follow DC and Boston.

So No I'm not against roads I'm for road improvement in some areas, but I'm in reality Atlanta is limited with what the region can do improve with roads. So the metro area need to look at alternative means.
Atlanta metro could do whatever it chose to do on roads outside 285. And there is a lot of room in parts of the area inside 285. Atlanta can't follow DC as it doesn't have the density. It has large lots and doesn't have the concentration of multi-family. It doesn't have the concentration of multi-family and has larger lots than Houston, let alone DC, Philly and NYC.

North Carolina is probably doing more freeway construction than any other state. Its east of your "line." New York and Philly are lined with freeways. Even Boston has more and it effectively has 3 freeway loops, 95, 495 and 190/195.
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