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Old 05-31-2018, 01:46 PM
 
440 posts, read 154,446 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulch View Post
They're already getting punished by being de facto required to buy a car to get anywhere.
So add more punishment?

 
Old 05-31-2018, 01:50 PM
 
440 posts, read 154,446 times
Reputation: 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Taxes spent to subsidize roads can be spent on affordable housing near transit if we fund roads via tolls.
You have to qualify to live in the projects. Not qualifying for subsidized housing doesn't mean you are doing well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
The status quo it punishment enough for the poor where they are forced into spend a large share of their budget to maintain a car and are trapped in a very sedentary & unhealthy lifestyle.
So why add more punishment then? Spite?
 
Old 05-31-2018, 01:55 PM
 
1,885 posts, read 769,345 times
Reputation: 1557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otakumaster View Post
You have to qualify to live in the projects. Not qualifying for subsidized housing doesn't mean you are doing well.


So why add more punishment then? Spite?
It would never happen anyway. The land values near transit centers would be so high that developers wanting to put high density structures near the area would scrutinize Atlanta for taking up the highly valuable space to put up housing projects.
 
Old 05-31-2018, 02:00 PM
 
10,477 posts, read 7,464,538 times
Reputation: 3292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otakumaster View Post
You have to qualify to live in the projects. Not qualifying for subsidized housing doesn't mean you are doing well.


So why add more punishment then? Spite?

So you don't think affordable housing near transit is part of the solution either? This is not punishment but offer support for for the poor in transit connected locations instead of car dependant suburbia.

But seriously, what solutions are you in favor of? Why are you avoiding stating anything you are actually in support of?

Last edited by jsvh; 05-31-2018 at 02:14 PM..
 
Old 05-31-2018, 02:01 PM
 
10,477 posts, read 7,464,538 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
That would appear to be a logical conclusion, except for the fact that cities are constrained by their finite surface area. And roads have a built-in limitation, regardless of the speed limit, to roughly 2000 vehicles per hour per lane.

The remedy is a renaissance of rail based transit - not just the puny streetcar and limited subway.

Why?
A single track has the carrying capacity of 9 lanes of superhighway.

NY Subway's 4 track system is the equivalent of 36 lanes of superhighway.

Atlanta was once the major terminal for passenger railroads in the south, and has the potential to rebuild those rights of way with dedicated passenger - only tracks.

Forget "high speed rail" and aim for “higher-speed rail” (between 90 mph (140 km/h) and 110 mph (180 km/h)) for passenger, commuter and fast freight to and from the many suburbs. If just 50% migrate to trains, that would end the gridlock.

Electric traction rail is the most efficient form of land transportation. It has the best potential for dominating the 21st century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_rail
One line of light rail has a theoretical capacity of up to 8 times more than one lane of freeway (not counting buses) during peak times. Roads have ultimate capacity limits that can be determined by traffic engineering. They usually experience a chaotic breakdown in flow and a dramatic drop in speed (colloquially known as a traffic jam) if they exceed about 2,000 vehicles per hour per lane (each car roughly two seconds behind another). Since most people who drive to work or on business trips do so alone, studies show that the average car occupancy on many roads carrying commuters is only about 1.2 people per car during the high-demand rush hour periods of the day. This combination of factors limits roads carrying only automobile commuters to a maximum observed capacity of about 2,400 passengers per hour per lane. The problem can be mitigated by using high-occupancy vehicle (HOV) lanes and introducing ride-sharing programs, but in most cases the solution adopted has been to add more lanes to the roads. Simple arithmetic shows that in order to carry 20,000 automobile commuters per hour per direction, a freeway must be at least 18 lanes wide.

By contrast, light rail vehicles can travel in multi-car trains carrying a theoretical ridership up to 20,000 passengers per hour in much narrower rights-of-way, not much more than two car lanes wide for a double track system. They can often be run through existing city streets and parks, or placed in the medians of roads. If run in streets, trains are usually limited by city block lengths to about four 180-passenger vehicles (720 passengers). Operating on 2 minute headways using traffic signal progression, a well-designed two-track system can handle up to 30 trains per hour per track, achieving peak rates of over 20,000 passengers per hour in each direction. More advanced systems with separate rights-of-way using moving block signaling can exceed 25,000 passengers per hour per track.
....
A four track urban rail system (local and express) could easily handle Atlanta's commuter needs.
With a maximum capacity of 100,000 passengers per hour, it could theoretically replace the equivalent of 41 lanes of superhighway.

If employers were encouraged to provide a shuttle bus service to the nearest station, when local buses don't connect, the transit situation would be resolved.
And if that wasn't enough - provide wi-fi internet service on the train as well as food service - making better use of the transit time.
/ / /

Oh, and having a world class rail mass transit system might encourage Amazon to locate their new headquarters in Hot 'Lanta.

PAY FOR IT?
Simple -
Instead of public subsidy (with its meddling), let us consider granting mass transit rail a better carrot - zero tax liability. Any company 100% involved in the manufacture, installation, operation or maintenance of electric traction rail mass transit and its employees are tax exempt.

The only way they make a profit is to get routes built and passengers moving. ASAP.
I suspect that we would find a far different result, under those conditions. Frankly, investors seeking tax exempt profits will POUR A FORTUNE into quickly building Atlanta's new rail mass transit system.


ATLANTA MASS TRANSIT & BEDROOM COMMUNITIES
FOUR TRACK RAIL (EXPRESS & LOCAL)
Imagine commuter train service connecting Atlanta to:
Duluth, Lilburn, Stone mountain, Forest Park, Austell, Villa Rica, Temple, Smyrna, Marietta, Dunwoody, Roswell, Kennesaw, Jonesboro, Union City, Gainesville, Canton, Buford, Griffin, Carrollton, and Newnan. . .

With four tracks, trains can also utilize intelligent destination routing, so that express trains can bypass stations that have no passengers to drop off or pick up, improving average speed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_s..._United_States
Class 5 : 90 mph (145 km/h)
Class 6 : 110 mph (177 km/h)
Class 7 : 125 mph (201 km/h)


A 30 mile trip from Downtown Marietta to Hartsfield-Jackson airport would take 15 to 25 minutes, instead of 50 minutes by car (plus wasted time for parking, etc, etc).
A 45 mile trip from Temple to the North Avenue Transit station might only take 20 to 30 minutes.


100,000 passengers per hour x $10 per fare = $1,000,000 revenue per hour

(Uber charges roughly $1/mile, so a 30 mile trip from Marietta to Hartsfield-Jackson would cost $30)
Excellent post.
 
Old 05-31-2018, 02:11 PM
 
10,477 posts, read 7,464,538 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4Camaro View Post
It would never happen anyway. The land values near transit centers would be so high that developers wanting to put high density structures near the area would scrutinize Atlanta for taking up the highly valuable space to put up housing projects.
Subsidized housing is not just housing projects. In fact I am not a fan 100% subsidized housing. More the mixed income housing where some of the housing is affordable. Almost all the new dense housing developments being built near transit have 20 or 30% as affordable.
 
Old 05-31-2018, 02:17 PM
 
1,885 posts, read 769,345 times
Reputation: 1557
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Subsidized housing is not just housing projects. In fact I am not a fan 100% subsidized housing. More the mixed income housing where some of the housing is affordable. Almost all the new dense housing developments being built near transit have 20 or 30% as affordable.
It could happen and Im in no way against it but I still have to say in the grand scheme of things in a city of 6.5 million people versus the number of transit stations still being in the teens...the impact would hardly be noticeable. It would take quite a bit more than that to make it viable and feasible for the masses to live closer to their work (and honestly I really doubt these major job centers really want that, I can't forsee a place like Alpharetta praising the idea of allowing thousands of lower and middle income citizens live within its reach.)
 
Old 05-31-2018, 02:22 PM
 
440 posts, read 154,446 times
Reputation: 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
So you don't think affordable housing near transit is part of the solution either?
A very small part as only a few would qualify for subsidized housing. So tolling all the others who can't afford it but don't qualify isn't a real solution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
This is not punishment but offer support for for the poor in transit connected locations instead of car dependant suburbia.
As stated, most people in poverty and especially the middle class don't qualify for subsidized housing. So this would not help the overall masses.
 
Old 05-31-2018, 02:25 PM
 
10,477 posts, read 7,464,538 times
Reputation: 3292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4Camaro View Post
It could happen and Im in no way against it but I still have to say in the grand scheme of things in a city of 6.5 million people versus the number of transit stations still being in the teens...the impact would hardly be noticeable. It would take quite a bit more than that to make it viable and feasible for the masses to live closer to their work (and honestly I really doubt these major job centers really want that, I can't forsee a place like Alpharetta praising the idea of allowing thousands of lower and middle income citizens live within its reach.)
We don't need to house every man woman and child next to transit, nor is that even reasonable. But we do need to shift the number of people that live and work near transit. That requires legalizing more density near transit and expanding the transit network.

What is not workable is having every man woman and child need to drive to and from every destination. It is simply impossible to build a road network to handle 100% of the people in a large city.
 
Old 05-31-2018, 02:28 PM
 
10,477 posts, read 7,464,538 times
Reputation: 3292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otakumaster View Post
A very small part as only a few would qualify for subsidized housing. So tolling all the others who can't afford it but don't qualify isn't a real solution.



As stated, most people in poverty and especially the middle class don't qualify for subsidized housing. So this would not help the overall masses.
Otakumaster- I have asked at least a half a dozen times, please tell us all what you are advocating for. There are downsides to everything but I am beginning to think you are only here to hate on other people's posts and not contribute anything yourself.
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