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Old 06-08-2018, 07:38 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,743 posts, read 16,732,445 times
Reputation: 5107

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Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
I don't believe this has been discussed yet in this thread...

Georgia gas taxes up, despite pump price fall
Georgia Gas Taxes Edge Up In 2017
GA DOR: Motor Fuel Rates

A few notes:
• In 2015, state gas taxes increased from a 7.5 per gallon and 4% sales tax to a single 26 cent per gallon tax. This effectively raised the tax from about 17 cents to about 26 cents, a near 53% increase.
In 2015, the tax was indexed to the CPI.
• The 2015 bill allows counties and cities to impose their own gas tax.
• In 2017, the state tax increased to 26.3 cents per gallon
• In July of 2018, it will increase to 26.8 cents per gallon.
• With Federal Tax added on, it's about 31.1 cents per gallon.
• This means that between 2015 and 2017, state gas taxes increased from about 17 cents per gallon to about 26.8 cents per gallon, or an 57.6% increase in just three years.
So, I'm sorry...is a 58% increase in user taxes in three years not enough for the state? Maybe that earlier point about GDOT being almost 90% funded by fuel taxes now is correct. Am I missing something here?

And yes, I know that federal dropped it's rate in 2016, maybe a little too much.
I think it's time for Atlanta to raise a gas tax to pay for alternative transportation improvements!

 
Old 06-08-2018, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,378 posts, read 9,477,109 times
Reputation: 9314
Rail based transportation and why America has a 3rd world system in a 1st world country.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyON0VPE5BA
[at 10:50 mark, the talking head blurts out that the blame lies against "the conspiracy" - - - since he's an authority, feel free to ignore him.]
 
Old 06-08-2018, 09:40 AM
 
4,535 posts, read 2,993,209 times
Reputation: 2954
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
How are you thinking we should collect user fees from bicyclists?
As I said, licenses. I gotta have a plate on my car. Cyclists can have a plate on their bike. And those shared bikes? Make'em really expensive. You know, like $5 a mile.

No, I'm not serious. But, it is just as ridiculous as the stuff you propose.

Quote:
And it is great you are paying the same tax rate, but if you are driving a bunch you are putting much, much more wear / costs on streets than a bike. Not to mention that street needs to be far wider to accommodate your car and people living closer into transit and bike-able / walkable distances are paying more taxes for our higher property values, so no, you do not pay just as much property tax.
Would you like me to compare your property tax to mine? Because I will.

And the people who live in Paces have property values which dwarf yours so much, their taxes are probably more than the cost of your house, but they aren't walkable to anywhere. And there are walkable places in south and west Atlanta which certainly do not have high property value.

Quote:
Also, if we are talking about local streets, those are not getting any money from gas taxes. Only state roads and highways are. So cars are also not paying a dime in user fees towards them.
How many commuters use your street? None. Neighborhood streets are used in the vast majority by the local residents going back and forth from their houses to live their life. They are paying their property taxes towards those roads. Trust me...my kid goes to camp over in Edgewood now, so I've had to drive over there. We were way early today since I had to drop my wife off at MARTA, so I decided to check out Glenwood Park, North Ormewood Park, and some of Kirkwood. That area is a nightmare...ain't no one cutting through there outside of the major roads. It literally took me 20 minutes to get from Glenwood Park to the school two miles away because of stupidly-timed traffic lights and idiot drivers who couldn't figure out how to turn left. I would avoid that area, and any area like it, at all costs.

Neighborhood roads are for the neighborhood. The people who live there pay for them in their property taxes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
The cost to manage the system would be more than revenue generated. Also, 99% of cyclists own a car. Property taxes pay for majority of the streets that bicycle infrastructure is built on.
I wasn't serious. Just putting out equally-ridiculous arguments as others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
I think it's time for Atlanta to raise a gas tax to pay for alternative transportation improvements!
Sure...add the 1% on. And raise the MARTA fare to $4.00.

You know what's funny...you guys always go apoplectic if transit funds are used for anything but transit, but you want to dig your paws into everyone else's funds or add new costs to everyone else.
 
Old 06-08-2018, 11:38 AM
 
1,269 posts, read 549,303 times
Reputation: 1060
I personally don't think Atlanta metro sees anywhere near enough bike ridership to profit from licensing them... Unless maybe they could be managed by the same department that licenses motor vehicles.
 
Old 06-08-2018, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,743 posts, read 16,732,445 times
Reputation: 5107
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
As I said, licenses. I gotta have a plate on my car. Cyclists can have a plate on their bike. And those shared bikes? Make'em really expensive. You know, like $5 a mile.

No, I'm not serious. But, it is just as ridiculous as the stuff you propose.



Would you like me to compare your property tax to mine? Because I will.

And the people who live in Paces have property values which dwarf yours so much, their taxes are probably more than the cost of your house, but they aren't walkable to anywhere. And there are walkable places in south and west Atlanta which certainly do not have high property value.



How many commuters use your street? None. Neighborhood streets are used in the vast majority by the local residents going back and forth from their houses to live their life. They are paying their property taxes towards those roads. Trust me...my kid goes to camp over in Edgewood now, so I've had to drive over there. We were way early today since I had to drop my wife off at MARTA, so I decided to check out Glenwood Park, North Ormewood Park, and some of Kirkwood. That area is a nightmare...ain't no one cutting through there outside of the major roads. It literally took me 20 minutes to get from Glenwood Park to the school two miles away because of stupidly-timed traffic lights and idiot drivers who couldn't figure out how to turn left. I would avoid that area, and any area like it, at all costs.

Neighborhood roads are for the neighborhood. The people who live there pay for them in their property taxes.



I wasn't serious. Just putting out equally-ridiculous arguments as others.



Sure...add the 1% on. And raise the MARTA fare to $4.00.

You know what's funny...you guys always go apoplectic if transit funds are used for anything but transit, but you want to dig your paws into everyone else's funds or add new costs to everyone else.
Germany has a good balance of car and rail infrastructure. They invented the limited access highway, but still have great high speed intercity rail, commuter rail, subway, and trams.
 
Old 06-08-2018, 02:03 PM
 
10,147 posts, read 7,145,635 times
Reputation: 3137
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
Would you like me to compare your property tax to mine? Because I will.
My annual property tax bill is in the five-figures. How about you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
How many commuters use your street? None. Neighborhood streets are used in the vast majority by the local residents going back and forth from their houses to live their life. They are paying their property taxes towards those roads. Trust me...my kid goes to camp over in Edgewood now, so I've had to drive over there. We were way early today since I had to drop my wife off at MARTA, so I decided to check out Glenwood Park, North Ormewood Park, and some of Kirkwood. That area is a nightmare...ain't no one cutting through there outside of the major roads. It literally took me 20 minutes to get from Glenwood Park to the school two miles away because of stupidly-timed traffic lights and idiot drivers who couldn't figure out how to turn left. I would avoid that area, and any area like it, at all costs.
Too many people already cutting through the area so you don't think anyone would cut through the area?

I certainly hope more drivers are like you and avoid the area in the future. The neighbrohood has certainly be trying to push it to be more designed with bikes and walkers first

Last edited by jsvh; 06-08-2018 at 02:11 PM..
 
Old 06-08-2018, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,743 posts, read 16,732,445 times
Reputation: 5107
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
My annual property tax bill is in the five-figures. How about you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
Would you like me to compare your property tax to mine? Because I will
That is public knowledge, no need to be secretive about it.
 
Old 06-08-2018, 06:22 PM
 
4,535 posts, read 2,993,209 times
Reputation: 2954
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
My annual property tax bill is in the five-figures. How about you?
I'm not comparing my house to a combination of multiple properties. We're talking the houses. Your house in Ormewood or Glenwood or whatever doesn't have a five-figure tax bill. Would have to be a $750k house.

Quote:
Too many people already cutting through the area so you don't think anyone would cut through the area?
......what? Where did I say people cut through the area? I said the opposite. Why would anyone cut through an area that doesn't have any through connections, except on the main roads like Glenwood or Flat Shoals? Makes no sense.

Do you disagree that most neighborhood roads are used by residents of the area?

Quote:
I certainly hope more drivers are like you and avoid the area in the future. The neighbrohood has certainly be trying to push it to be more designed with bikes and walkers first
There is nothing remotely walker- or biker-friendly about North Ormewood. No sidewalks and narrow roads, with little room for sidewalks without people giving up half of their yards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt
That is public knowledge, no need to be secretive about it.
Exactly. Five figures. Ha. cq's is probably bigger than either of ours. His taxes, too.
 
Old 06-08-2018, 07:41 PM
 
10,147 posts, read 7,145,635 times
Reputation: 3137
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
......what? Where did I say people cut through the area? I said the opposite. Why would anyone cut through an area that doesn't have any through connections, except on the main roads like Glenwood or Flat Shoals? Makes no sense.


There is nothing remotely walker- or biker-friendly about North Ormewood. No sidewalks and narrow roads, with little room for sidewalks without people giving up half of their yards.
How little you understand young grasshopper. I do get a little smile when I envision you trying to drive around Glenwood Park and getting all frustrated with it's "poor design" when it was not designed with your ability to cut thru at high speeds as its main concern. Our "main roads" are two laned streets where you see plenty of bikers and walkers and are planned, heavily used bike routes that connect East Atlanta Village with the Beltline. Bikers and walkers also cut directly through Gleenwood Park and streets like Faith & Sanders Ave as well. My street has no sidewalks or bike lanes yet there are just as many walkers and bikers going down the middle of the street as cars.

And there is more of that on the way. Streets like Bill Kennedy Way will see a conversion to a shared street in the future where the sidewalk / beltline blends into the street.



Streets are for people. Not just cars.

Sure, during I-20's massive, regular gridlock people will try to cut through our neighborhood. They of course save no time and stay gridlocked as myself and my neighbors walk & bike past them lined up all the way between Boulevard and Moreland.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
I'm not comparing my house to a combination of multiple properties. We're talking the houses. Your house in Ormewood or Glenwood or whatever doesn't have a five-figure tax bill. Would have to be a $750k house.
Yes, my new property into the center of the city that has zero parking and is right next to transit does have a higher tax bill than my property on the edge with free street parking and no current major transit connections. Almost like that was my whole point.

Last edited by jsvh; 06-08-2018 at 08:11 PM..
 
Old 06-08-2018, 08:48 PM
 
4,535 posts, read 2,993,209 times
Reputation: 2954
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
How little you understand young grasshopper. I do get a little smile when I envision you trying to drive around Glenwood Park and getting all frustrated with it's "poor design" when it was not designed with your ability to cut thru at high speeds as its main concern.
Where did I say anything about cutting through your neighborhood at high speeds? Or cutting through at all? I very specifically stated that people do not cut through there. That was literally my point. And you're saying I'm the one who doesn't understand? My chair is about to tip over from my laughter. Unless you're talking about arterial and collector roads, which...sorry, those are specifically designed for through traffic, not as local neighborhood roads.

I see that you still won't answer the question: do you, or do you not, agree that neighborhood roads like those that you live on and others around you, are used in the majority by neighborhood inhabitants?

Related question: do you, or do you not, agree that your neighborhood roads should be ONLY for those who live on said road and that no other person should ever drive on them?

Quote:
Our "main roads" are two laned streets where you see plenty of bikers and walkers and are planned, heavily used bike routes that connect East Atlanta Village with the Beltline. Bikers and walkers also cut directly through Gleenwood Park and streets like Faith & Sanders Ave as well.
Okay? I don't know what point you're trying to make here. Glenwood has bike lanes only from Moreland to Cameron, which is less than a mile (unless more have been added since the end of 2017). Flat Shoals has no bike lanes north of May (unless more have been added since the end of 2017). Moreland has no bike lanes. I didn't see hardly any bikers or walkers today, but maybe they sleep in late. Saw plenty of cars parked in the street, though. I guess no one there uses them though...must be for decoration.

But...it should be noted that Glenwood east of Moreland is GA State Route 260, paid for by...wait for it...fuel taxes. Moreland is GA State Route 24, paid for by...wait for it...fuel taxes. Memorial Dr is GA State Route 154, paid for by...wait for it...fuel taxes. Little roads like Sanders, Faith, and the roads through Glenwood Park serve no purpose for commuters, and I doubt very, very few cut through those. So, I really don't know what you're trying to say. The only people using those roads are the people who live there. Thus, property tax is a perfectly viable source of income for those roads. Even if you are a car-free person, you still have mail delivery, package delivery, pizza delivery, maintenance people, fire and police, etc. Those roads are maintained for your benefit as a resident, even if you do not specifically drive on them. Property tax covers that.

Quote:
My street has no sidewalks or bike lanes yet there are just as many walkers and bikers going down the middle of the street as cars.
Yeah..they're walking in the street. That's not "designed for walkers and bikers".

Quote:
And there is more of that on the way. Streets like Bill Kennedy Way will see a conversion to a shared street in the future where the sidewalk / beltline blends into the street.
Cool. I think Bill Kennedy should be closed to car traffic altogether, or most definitely cut off from the interstate. It's a stupid road.

Quote:
Streets are for people. Not just cars.
Okay. Doubt you'd be able to argue that successfully with the cop if you were walking down the middle of Glenwood, but sure.

Quote:
Sure, during I-20's massive, regular gridlock people will try to cut through our neighborhood. They of course save no time and stay gridlocked as myself and my neighbors walk & bike past them lined up all the way between Bouvard and Moreland.
Most of those people are probably people who live around you but aren't going somewhere walking or biking distance. Or people whose destination is somewhere nearby.

Your walking and biking trips are more efficient for a minute percentage of trips, so yeah...you win every now and then.

Quote:
Yes, my new property into the center of the city that has zero parking and is right next to transit does have a higher tax bill than my property on the edge with free street parking and no current major transit connections. Almost like that was my whole point.
So, your point was that "my commercial building in the center of south downtown has a higher tax rate than your neighborhood townhome"? Oh, sorry...I didn't realize we were being obtuse. I thought we were comparing like properties. How very silly of me.
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