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Old 06-28-2018, 11:02 PM
 
4,544 posts, read 3,000,499 times
Reputation: 2959

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
People are currently using MARTA to access the hospital. MARTA Mobility is constantly dropping off/picking up riders. Bus route 40 always picks up a large group of riders there.
I'm talking about how the article implies that it's crazy to build a deck here because there's a MARTA station a block away. But, MARTA serves so little of the city and metro, it's an irrelevant argument. For most people, taking MARTA to this area would be an exercise in futility. I can't conceive of 3,000 users of said deck, though.

 
Old 06-29-2018, 11:15 AM
Status: "♪ "Everything is awesome..." ♪" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: Prepperland
13,389 posts, read 9,485,995 times
Reputation: 9321
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
The large majority of those deaths were in third-world countries with almost no traffic safety whatsoever. The US is low on the list. Hard to use that as a direct comparison.
[According to a new report by the National Safety Council. The NSC estimates there were 40,100 motor vehicle deaths last year [2017]... in the USA !]
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/04/04/trains-safer-than-cars-buses-passengers-experts-say/82613144/S

Over 400,000 deaths every 10 years is "acceptable" to you? OK.

Why is freedom in quotes? Does the automobile not provide you with a freedom of mobility that transit simply cannot match?
We may have different definitions for "freedom."
FREEDOM - The condition of not being bound by established conventions or rules.
"Traveling by motor vehicle" is anything but "freedom." It is bound by innumerable conventions and rules, and one can face lengthy incarceration for their violation.
And travel is restricted to pavement and terrain suitable to the wheels and suspension of the particular vehicle.

And being compelled to pay 23% to 26% of one's lifetime earnings to support the automobile / petroleum / pavement paradigm is anything but "free."
Whereas paying 2% for mass transit is not "total freedom" but it is a bargain in comparison.
 
Old 06-29-2018, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Johns Creek area
9,737 posts, read 8,904,359 times
Reputation: 5249
Number of Fatalities Annually on Georgia
 
Old 06-29-2018, 12:05 PM
 
2,195 posts, read 517,829 times
Reputation: 2446
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnsleyPark View Post
Traffic congestion actually keeps you safer. It's harder to die on impact when you can't attain greater than 5 mph.
 
Old 06-29-2018, 04:34 PM
bu2
 
9,303 posts, read 5,958,368 times
Reputation: 3729
The Future of San Antonio Transit | The Antiplanner

Article is specifically about San Antonio, but mentions how everything also applies to the rest of the country.

His main points:
Transit is about downtown. Only areas with over 240k jobs downtown have ridership over 10%.
Rail doesn't help stem ridership decline.
Increasing service isn't helping anymore.
Transit is expensive compared to cars.
Transit isn't green.
Nationwide, people with incomes over 75k are most likely to use transit (interesting-I would have thought it would be the lowest income as it is in San Antonio).
 
Old 06-29-2018, 04:39 PM
bu2
 
9,303 posts, read 5,958,368 times
Reputation: 3729
Stop Trying to Get Workers Out of Their Cars - Reason.com

Smart growth isn't smart.

...One early manifestation of this was the attempt by urban and transportation planners in the '80s and '90s to promote "jobs-housing balance," where each county of a large metro area has comparable percentages of the region's jobs and of its housing. The rationale was that this would reduce "excessive" commuting by enabling people to find work close to their homes. But urban agglomeration theory makes it clear that that is a recipe for a low-productivity urban economy. Census data show that many suburban areas are now approaching jobs-housing balance on their own, but this does not necessarily reduce commute distances—to get to the jobs they want, many people still travel across boundaries.

A fascinating example is Arlington County, Virginia. Since 2000, the number of jobs and the number of working residents in the county have been approximately equal. But it turns out that only 52 percent of those working residents have jobs in the county. Out of 582,000 resident workers, 280,000 commute to adjacent counties or the District of Columbia. And out of 574,000 jobs in the county, 272,000 are filled by workers from other places.

A less extreme version of smart growth says that we should discourage car travel and shift resources heavily toward transit. People should be encouraged to live in high-density "villages" where they can easily obtain transit service to jobs elsewhere in the metro area. The problem with this vision is the inability of transit to effectively compete with the auto highway system.

Simply put, cars work better for workers. A 2012 Brookings study analyzing data from 371 transit providers in America's largest 100 metro areas found that over three-fourths of all jobs are in neighborhoods with transit service—but only about a quarter of those jobs can be reached by transit within 90 minutes. That's more than three times the national average commute time.

Another study, by Andrew Owen and David Levinson of the University of Minnesota, looked at job access via transit in 46 of the 50 largest metro areas. Their data combined actual in-vehicle time with estimated walking time at either end of the transit trip, to approximate total door-to-door travel time. Only five of the 46 metro areas have even a few percent of their jobs accessible by transit within half an hour. All the others have 1 percent or less. Within 60 minutes door-to-door, the best cities have 15–22 percent of jobs reachable by transit.

Meanwhile, Owen and Levinson found that in 31 of the 51 largest metro areas in 2010, 100 percent of jobs could be reached by car in 30 minutes or less. Within 40 minutes, all the jobs could be reached by car in 39 of the cities. Within an hour, essentially every job in all 51 places could be reached by car. The roadway network is ubiquitous, connecting every possible origin to every destination. The contrast with access via transit—let alone walking or biking—is profound.
 
Old 06-29-2018, 08:57 PM
 
10,157 posts, read 7,153,092 times
Reputation: 3137
What a silly article.

Jobs moving to the suburbs is not "smart growth".

And just because some places have been built to be car dependent does not mean it is best or even possible to have a city that is entirely car dependent. Nor is it evidence that we need to be building more car dependent areas.
 
Old 06-29-2018, 09:33 PM
 
4,544 posts, read 3,000,499 times
Reputation: 2959
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics View Post
We may have different definitions for "freedom."
FREEDOM - The condition of not being bound by established conventions or rules.
"Traveling by motor vehicle" is anything but "freedom." It is bound by innumerable conventions and rules, and one can face lengthy incarceration for their violation.
You're taking this to a really, really weird place. I honestly don't even know how to respond to this because it is so far out there.

My being able to go wherever I want (not limited to transit routes), whenever I want (not bound by transit schedules), and by whatever route I decide to take (not bound by transit routes), with whatever stops I wish to make (not bound by transit routes), is freedom to me. The fact that there are rules in place that I need to stay within barely factors into that. You also have rules for walking, rules for biking, rules for riding trains. Breaking them can lead to all sorts of punishments. This is the same with literally everything you do in life.

Quote:
And travel is restricted to pavement and terrain suitable to the wheels and suspension of the particular vehicle.
Okay...and this is not so with trains? They are restricted to ONLY the route laid out by the people who put the steel rails down on mostly level terrain. What are you even trying to prove here?

Quote:
And being compelled to pay 23% to 26% of one's lifetime earnings to support the automobile / petroleum / pavement paradigm is anything but "free."
Whereas paying 2% for mass transit is not "total freedom" but it is a bargain in comparison.
First of all, few people are paying 23-26% of their earnings. I paid less than 10% of my earnings to support two cars last year. Both cars are recent mid-range models, not older, used cars which people with less money would or should be driving if they choose to drive.

As far as your 2% (which is BS)...yeah, when everyone else is paying your way for you, it's pretty nice, isn't it?

So, you're saying that owning car is around 12 times more expensive than using transit? If someone uses transit ONLY for a single round-trip to and from work, they will pay $5 a day, or about $1,250 per year. A monthly pass is $1,140. Even the most bogus estimates of car costs (which usually include some BS number related to "lost productivity time") don't come in at $13,500 per year.

But again..transit is only useful if you happen to live and work directly on a transit line, and shape your life to fit within the transit system (which, by the way, is not freedom).

You guys are a hoot!
 
Old 06-30-2018, 05:25 PM
 
10,157 posts, read 7,153,092 times
Reputation: 3137
Glad you have the option of getting around by your car.

But you got to realize many people do not see owning a car as "freedom". I certainly do not want to have to worry about parking, staying sober, logistics of coordinating who is driving / keeping up with the car, maintenance, changing modes, among other things.

Far, far easier to just hop in / rent the best mode for the trip. MARTA train, Delta plane, boat, Uber car, Relay Bike, Bird scooter and just hop out when you are there. Then if a big sporting even or something lets out clogging all the streets you have the flexibility to take a whole different mode (or modes) back such as MARTA to bypass that traffic.

You don't own a car. It owns you.

If you took an Uber somewhere and then it stops raining and the sun comes out you might bike home. But if you drove your car there you are going to drive your car home. That is not freedom. Sure you have a "choice" to leave your car there (and possibly have it towed if they do not allow overnight parking) and rent a bike home and then come back and get your car later, but we all know that is a false choice.

To each his own. Just because you prefer your car does not mean the city should be built for 95%+ car trips.

Last edited by jsvh; 06-30-2018 at 05:38 PM..
 
Old 06-30-2018, 06:48 PM
Status: "♪ "Everything is awesome..." ♪" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: Prepperland
13,389 posts, read 9,485,995 times
Reputation: 9321
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
First of all, few people are paying 23-26% of their earnings. I paid less than 10% of my earnings to support two cars last year. Both cars are recent mid-range models, not older, used cars which people with less money would or should be driving if they choose to drive.

As far as your 2% (which is BS).[No, simple physics. Steel wheel on steel rail has a 90% savings in energy used. Shifting 26% one place to the right of the decimal point is 2%]
You may believe your overt costs are less than 10%, but perhaps you missed a few items.

http://www.edmunds.com/ford/focus/20...tyle=101286097
$31,115 over five years is the "true cost to own" that Ford Focus.
$6,223 per year.
If you're really paying less than 10%, your gross income would need to be
$124,460 per annum.
Congratulations. . .

Oh, but you object to "subsidizing rail" - - -

Who else but the taxpayers have to pay the bill for the "free" infrastructure.
http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/
Estimated Investment Needed by 2020: $3.6 Trillion
. . . .
Civil engineers say fixing infrastructure will take $4.6 trillion
Civil engineers say fixing infrastructure will take $4.6 trillion
--The engineers society says roads and bridges need $2 trillion in improvements.
. . . .
Subsidy? Subsidy? OH MY YES. But the lion's share goes to the automobile / petroleum / pavement hegemony.

Perhaps EDMUNDS is biased.
http://www.kbb.com/car-news/all-the-...rcent-in-2012/
...
Cost per mile

According to AAA, car owners shelled out 59.6 cents per mile - 1.1 cents per mile more than in 2011, a bump that took the total annual outlay to $8,946 for a vehicle driven the benchmark distance of 15,000 miles.
..............
($8946 x 2)/.1
$178,920 annual income !
IMPRESSIVE.
But for most Americans, car ownership takes a larger bite out of the budget.
In fact, it's the next largest bite after housing costs.


268.8 million vehicles were registered in 2016
x $8946 average cost
computes to $2,404,684,800,000
$2.4 TRILLION annual cost to own
vs
GDP $19.39 trillion U.S. dollars in 2017
22% of that is $4.2658 trillion
Do you think that when you sum up ALL spending on automobiles / petroleum / highway, you will exceed that?
I do.
BUT if electric traction rail could slash that cost by 90%, woo hoo!

Last edited by jetgraphics; 06-30-2018 at 07:11 PM..
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