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Old 05-21-2018, 09:42 AM
bu2
 
9,287 posts, read 5,944,295 times
Reputation: 3699

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
Did it? Our land use changed to accommodate the automobile. It use to be that commuters would use the streetcar system to access downtown which was packed with retail, jobs, etc. and then ride the streetcar back to their neighborhoods where at the streetcar stop there were things like grocery, retail, movies, pharmacies, hardware, etc. within walking distance from their SFH. You can see these examples in our intown, neighborhood villages; EAV, Oakhurst, Kirkwood, Candler Park, L5P, Westview, Summerhill, etc.) Our cities and communitites were more accessible and convenient before our land use policy changed to accommodate the automobile.
Land use policy changed to accommodate people who now had more freedom and didn't have to accommodate their lifestyle to a streetcar.

 
Old 05-21-2018, 09:43 AM
bu2
 
9,287 posts, read 5,944,295 times
Reputation: 3699
Not that Atlanta's land use policy is great. It isn't.
 
Old 05-21-2018, 09:55 AM
 
311 posts, read 111,005 times
Reputation: 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
But they seem to be able to afford............ that car....... that gas....... and that insurance to keep that long commute Tho,......... Stop it.... no one is make people take these long commute but them selves. priorities and choices they made that choice.
So my job is in Buckhead and I need to live within walking distance of my job in order fit your ideal world. Condos 5 minutes from my job are north of 350k. I can only afford 250k Max. My wife works in Alpharetta. What do I do?


Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
Millions of people around the world live near their jobs. This isn't a break though concept, only in America the last 50 years people talking these radical commute.

A 100 years people wasn't commuting these extreme distance because they knew it was stupid and cars weren't like to today, what happen as more roads expend outward people became more careless and irresponsible about their living choices. Also They thought was benefits and wan't thinking about the consequences like traffic and etc.

It example of wanting to "have your cake and eating it too"

My point is traffic comes with that suburban lifestyle you can not fix that that. The only way to change that is to change your lifestyle... Their no point of blaming another community.

So if my wife works in Alpharetta and I work in Buckhead and we only have a 250K budget , what do we do? So according to you we have to make a choice of one of us not working ?

You think we can just pick and choose where our jobs are? What if we lose these jobs and then what? What if the next job is downtown and she gets one in Norcross? How do we choose ourselves out of this situation?
 
Old 05-21-2018, 10:12 AM
 
4,530 posts, read 2,990,099 times
Reputation: 2954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otakumaster View Post
So my job is in Buckhead and I need to live within walking distance of my job in order fit your ideal world. Condos 5 minutes from my job are north of 350k. I can only afford 250k Max. My wife works in Alpharetta. What do I do?
You just simply change jobs.
 
Old 05-21-2018, 10:49 AM
 
4,368 posts, read 4,243,643 times
Reputation: 3360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4Camaro View Post
I agree! Take down all the highways and cut down the roads because its ALL THEIR FAULT commuters run amok those roads in those resourceful wasting polluting disgusting automobiles! Those insolent fools how could they hope to have a pleasant life wasting fuel taking up all that right of way in these inefficient transit machines...

-- Its THEIR fault the metro is just boiling over with traffic placing in the top 10 most congested cities in the WORLD despite the fact it has half the population of Chicago and not even a quarter of the population of Los Angeles!

-- Its THEIR fault that most job centric hubs like Alpharetta, Sandy Springs / Dunwoody, Downtown, just simply put cost to darned much to live in for the average citizen and its just complete assenine on their part that they couldn't get that workload of a job they commute to to pay them more than $45k a year in Alpharetta so they gotta hog up GA-400 instead!!! GRRRR!!!

-- Its THEIR fault they actually have dreams of a different lifestyle than living right ontop of their neighbor, or under them, or desire a place to live that doesn't require 4 room mates to afford.



In seriousness... you atleast managed to make me laugh. Not specifically at you...but in seriousness... its time to wake up and be a bit more realistic.
You respond while not actually responding

You do better if you actually try to explain how it not their fault

Your post is like you tried a straw man of me as if I said do not like car drivers, and it has nothing to do with the word "fault"

'fault" meaning they are the cause of their own distress..............No where in your quote above did you actually address that point.

If you choose to live a suburban lifestyle you are choosing traffic....... That is con to that situation... It's like saying I want to keep my lights on all night but don't expect the bill to be high........ You can't have it both ways. And that is being "realistic"....


And Yes the more sprawl a place is cause more people to drive distance.. Atlanta urbanized area sprawls more than Chicago even though Atlanta is 3 million less. This mean higher density of people by defualt are living closer their job in Chicago than people do in Atlanta.

Quote:
Hi today's year 2018 we're about 100 years away from when one of the most era changing inventions ever was released... The Automobile.

People lived so close because they had to. The Automobile and roads changed this dramatically about commuting, it made things..convinient, and easier to get to. You no longer had to wait on a schedule, a train, or hop on a carriage .. you could go where you needed to go, when you needed to get there.

That asside...another much more important thing to realize is...the practicality of living has LONG changed... The population of the planet has more than doubled since that period of time... Squeeze all those people who want to live closer to their jobs ITP and see what happens to the cost of living...you think Atlanta's expensive now? You ain't seen nothin yet.
Again you making my point it's own there fault......

There pro and cons to transit, there are pros and cons to cars....... You expecting just the pro to a suburban life style but not excepting the cons.

Your telling me how great suburban living is.......... but complain about Traffic. but Failing to understand that lifestyle manifest the traffic.




Quote:
No you see this is the thing.. Atlanta HAS no layout..whatsoever... Atlanta is designed on the go, there is no "planning" -- and even when there is its instantly thrown to the wayside on the stake of property owners...which is the leading cause of the majority of our infrastructure issues... Grid layouts are boring and they arent pretty..but they are very effective. A bit of redundancy would go a long way to aiding some unecessary congestion...

And trust me...you don't want to be like DC or Boston (who literally became so frustrated with traffic they dug their highways underground) when it comes to traffic...both of which have transit systems which far outclass anything we have in the metro.
This post above makes no sense...... the quote you replied has nothing to do whether I like grids or not.... but rather the reality that Atlanta is not grid and nothing can change to make the metro a grid.

What yall are doing is crying over metros that are grids which is pointless and doesn't help the situation. The question becomes what to do now? Yall say roads....... OK..... Where? there literally no place to put these roads, Neighborhoods already block paths of new roads the only way is unless neighborhoods are raze... And if that's your views lets started with your community and home first?

The reason I brought up DC and Boston because metro Atlanta's lay out more similar to them. So it make sense for Atlanta to follow a path that is possible, Then complain over a pointless impossible path of looking at LA.

Quote:
Um dude... you really need to quit here... you're absolutely ridiculous... Okay fine I'll lay it out for you only because you just have a high cause....I gotta commend that atleast you'll stick up for what you believe...doesn't necessarily mean it makes sense though.

OKAY - The AVERAGE CAR in America is about 11 years old. Said 11 year old car is probably worth $8k to $15K at BEST. But lets give a better extreme example. At MSRP, my personal car costs around $51k, although I purchased it for $36k... Thats a brand new car.
Better quality raises average age of cars on U.S. roads to 11.5 years

The average HOUSE in Gwinnett is currently $214,884
https://www.zillow.com/gwinnett-county-ga/home-values/
Thats approximately $1,155 monthly mortgage with a decent interest rate.

The average HOUSE in Alpharetta is currently: $377,896
Thats approximately $2,030 monthly mortage with a decent interest rate.
https://www.zillow.com/alpharetta-ga/home-values/

Lets take the EXTREME example of even a brand new car and add that to that home loan in Gwinnett... at $51k (which was the MSRP of a fairly higher end model) -- add that to $214,884 --

Elementary my dear
$214,884
+$50,000
------------
$264,884

We are STILL more than $100K less than the House in Alpharetta... drat...I forgot insurance...fine ...on the HIGH END CAR add another $2 grand a year...

$266,884

Then crap what about fuel consumption... On that same car, I get about 19 MPG on the street, 26 on the highway and it costs me $50 per fillup in a 20 gallon tank. A full tank can last me about a week and a half commuting between Gwinnett and North Fulton... That is approximately $150 in fuel per month...then multiply that by 12... another $1,800..but I'll be optimistic and give you $3,000 a year...in fuel...and guess what...

$269,884

WE ARE STILL OVER $100,000 CHEAPER THAN A AVERAGE HOUSE IN ALPHARETTA.

Suburbia exists for a reason bub.


Now...unless you have actual facts with backed up data PROVING that living near a job center in the metro is the same cost as commuting to one.. ..please dont try that again... ...ever...

Stop looking at the stuff that happened centuries ago and compare life to what it is TODAY... right here and now...it would be impractical and infeasible to live like we did 100 years ago
which is why it doesn't happen. ...Compare the data and figures we have TODAY...not yesterday. Yesterday is gone...move on.
There several flaws with this because you left out so many variables in life

There a difference between not affordable and wanting more. People want to live above their means, They want the largest house for the cheapest they can can get it. You don't have to take the "average" price range, you can go cheaper. That call a choice... You can get a cheaper car, cheaper House...... So what actually happen in this situation you choose opp out getting something affordable closer to work....... because you wanted something else further out. Because if you wanted a house in Alpharetta for 200k you could had got it, So it had nothing to do with affordability but rather what you wanted out that 200k "choices"

Another thing is where in Gwinnett? I play along lets say some one can't afford Alpharetta but does that mean they have live in Buford? Noooo. If someone live far from there Job and they sit in Traffic it's there own fault and choice. And trying best to dodge self responsibility.

I like Ice cream but if eat bunch of Ice Cream I would gain weight or be sick right? that how life works

You like Suburban sprawl ok find but don't blame anyone for sitting in traffic. You choose the package deal that include traffic.

Last edited by chiatldal; 05-21-2018 at 11:00 AM..
 
Old 05-21-2018, 10:58 AM
 
9,666 posts, read 11,559,783 times
Reputation: 12967
The renters will never see any savings.......the landlords will still try to get top dollar then the parking lot owners will do the same!
 
Old 05-21-2018, 11:01 AM
 
4,530 posts, read 2,990,099 times
Reputation: 2954
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
There a difference between not affordable and wanting more. People want to live above their means, They want the largest house for the cheapest they can can get it. You don't have to take the "average" price range, you can go cheaper. That call a choice... You can get a cheaper car, cheaper House...... So what actually happen in this situation you choose opp out getting something affordable closer to work....... because you wanted something else further out. Because if you wanted a house in Alpharetta for 200k you could had got it, So it had nothing to do with affordability but rather what you wanted out that 200k "choices"
So, wait....do we or do we not have an affordable housing crisis? Because a lot of the guys here act like everyone is about to drown in housing debt. You seem to say that it's just as cheap to live in town, you just have to choose to not live far away....
 
Old 05-21-2018, 11:11 AM
 
311 posts, read 111,005 times
Reputation: 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post

There a difference between not affordable and wanting more. People want to live above their means, They want the largest house for the cheapest they can can get it. You don't have to take the "average" price range, you can go cheaper. That call a choice... You can get a cheaper car, cheaper House...... So what actually happen in this situation you choose opp out getting something affordable closer to work....... because you wanted something else further out. Because if you wanted a house in Alpharetta for 200k you could had got it, So it had nothing to do with affordability but rather what you wanted out that 200k "choices"

Another thing is where in Gwinnett? I play along lets say some one can't afford Alpharetta but does that mean they have live in Buford? Noooo. If someone live far from there Job and they sit in Traffic it's there own fault and choice. And trying best to dodge self responsibility.

I like Ice cream but if eat bunch of Ice Cream I would gain weight or be sick right? that how life works

You like Suburban sprawl ok find but don't blame anyone for sitting in traffic. You choose the package deal that include traffic.


What happens if they buy the cheaper house in Gwinnett and get a new job in Midtown?

What do they do if they have a spouse that works in Duluth?
 
Old 05-21-2018, 11:13 AM
bu2
 
9,287 posts, read 5,944,295 times
Reputation: 3699
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
You respond while not actually responding

You do better if you actually try to explain how it not their fault

Your post is like you tried a straw man of me as if I said do not like car drivers, and it has nothing to do with the word "fault"

'fault" meaning they are the cause of their own distress..............No where in your quote above did you actually address that point.

If you choose to live a suburban lifestyle you are choosing traffic....... That is con to that situation... It's like saying I want to keep my lights on all night but don't expect the bill to be high........ You can't have it both ways. And that is being "realistic"....


And Yes the more sprawl a place is cause more people to drive distance.. Atlanta urbanized area sprawls more than Chicago even though Atlanta is 3 million less. This mean higher density of people by defualt are living closer their job in Chicago than people do in Atlanta.


Again you making my point it's own there fault......

There pro and cons to transit, there are pros and cons to cars....... You expecting just the pro to a suburban life style but not excepting the cons.

Your telling me how great suburban living is.......... but complain about Traffic. but Failing to understand that lifestyle manifest the traffic.





This post above makes no sense...... the quote you replied has nothing to do whether I like grids or not.... but rather the reality that Atlanta is not grid and nothing can change to make the metro a grid.

What yall are doing is crying over metros that are grids which is pointless and doesn't help the situation. The question becomes what to do now? Yall say roads....... OK..... Where? there literally no place to put these roads, Neighborhoods already block paths of new roads the only way is unless neighborhoods are raze... And if that's your views lets started with your community and home first?

The reason I brought up DC and Boston because metro Atlanta's lay out more similar to them. So it make sense for Atlanta to follow a path that is possible, Then complain over a pointless impossible path of looking at LA.


There several flaws with this because you left out so many variables in life

There a difference between not affordable and wanting more. People want to live above their means, They want the largest house for the cheapest they can can get it. You don't have to take the "average" price range, you can go cheaper. That call a choice... You can get a cheaper car, cheaper House...... So what actually happen in this situation you choose opp out getting something affordable closer to work....... because you wanted something else further out. Because if you wanted a house in Alpharetta for 200k you could had got it, So it had nothing to do with affordability but rather what you wanted out that 200k "choices"

Another thing is where in Gwinnett? I play along lets say some one can't afford Alpharetta but does that mean they have live in Buford? Noooo. If someone live far from there Job and they sit in Traffic it's there own fault and choice. And trying best to dodge self responsibility.

I like Ice cream but if eat bunch of Ice Cream I would gain weight or be sick right? that how life works

You like Suburban sprawl ok find but don't blame anyone for sitting in traffic. You choose the package deal that include traffic.
People have made a choice. But then some people want to make a choice for them and make it even more difficult by taking out roads that already exist. And then to not account for growth in those areas.

And I don't see the analogy between DC and Atlanta. DC has a nice grid. In any event, their subway is falling apart even though it is subsidized by the federal government and they have all those 8-5 government jobs which make mass transit easier to use.
 
Old 05-21-2018, 11:22 AM
 
4,368 posts, read 4,243,643 times
Reputation: 3360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otakumaster View Post
So my job is in Buckhead and I need to live within walking distance of my job in order fit your ideal world. Condos 5 minutes from my job are north of 350k. I can only afford 250k Max. My wife works in Alpharetta. What do I do?

So if my wife works in Alpharetta and I work in Buckhead and we only have a 250K budget , what do we do? So according to you we have to make a choice of one of us not working ?


You don't have to live specifically in but some where retaliative close area.

What I mean is people who live in Paulding County but work in Gwinnett or live in Forsyth County but work Downtown. Million of people do this and if why traffic is the way it is.




Quote:
You think we can just pick and choose where our jobs are? What if we lose these jobs and then what? What if the next job is downtown and she gets one in Norcross? How do we choose ourselves out of this situation?
Yes, You not force to take any Job, and if you really want it, you can relocate if it's far and bad commute.

Of corse you can commute far but you also be choosing traffic. it has nothing to do with me it's your choice. The Issues is yall not accepting the cons to yall own choice.

Again isn't break though concept, no one is doing these super commute but Americans. Every where else this is practical logic. The issues Americans want want the pros of living a lifestyle but don't want the cons of that lifestyle.
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