Atlanta’s relationship with the automobile is reaching a crossroads. (Savannah: student loans, school)

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by chiatldal

Umm no, ironically you haven't read a word I said cause you think I'm telling people where to live, when I'm saying accept the pros and cons of your choices.

People can do what ever they want Seriously live where ever you want, what I said there are consequences for choices no matter what that choice is. Now you are in a fantasy where there's not... and rather trying to blame it on other people and make excuses.

If you don't like traffic change your life style, If like a suburban life style then accepting the con the comes with it. That have absolutely nothing to do with me.

And this proves you read absolutely nothing... because I said none of that.

What I am saying is...

It doesn't matter if you are telling them to move to another location... or not... because regardless of how you come off about it, your idea is unrealistic, and impractical. It would have been accomplished by this point could it be done so easily.
You know what would happen instead? If the MILLIONS of people who commute around the suburbs attempted to crowd around the job centers, the prices in those areas would IMMEDIATELY inflate, and price the general population well outside of the district...thus what do you get? Commuters... and before you go off ranting...Give me one single example where this has not happened.

And don't play dumb with me... I might imply by your previous posts, although you are not telling them, you ARE suggesting it.

Originally Posted by cqholt

I actually agree that we need to improve E-W connectivity in the Northern metro, to include existing surface street widening and part of that should include dedicated bus lanes, signal priority, and stations w/ off board fare collection. What we should not do is build a North Arc.

Yeah but Atlanta needs something to divert truck traffic away from I-285. I-285 is just no longer a bypass anymore, its an inner-city connector highway.

A tolled and limited exits, heavy zoning restricted around access points highway should be able to get the job done so long as zoning restrictions remain stringent enough to keep development away from the corridor. Unrealistic at this point but ever so needed.

[Otakumaster]

Originally Posted by chiatldal

Yes, You not force to take any Job, and if you really want it, you can relocate if it's far and bad commute.

Of corse you can commute far but you also be choosing traffic. it has nothing to do with me it's your choice. The Issues is yall not accepting the cons to yall own choice.

Again isn't break though concept, no one is doing these super commute but Americans. Every where else this is practical logic. The issues Americans want want the pros of living a lifestyle but don't want the cons of that lifestyle.

Americans want to eat .

Since this is a capitalist society I have to take a job in order to live.

Relocation costs money and often one cannot afford to live close to their job even if they own a car (which you think makes up the difference in all scenarios).


Americans have to take jobs in order to survive and those jobs aren’t always in affordable areas.


Congrats that you can pick and choose where you work.

Surely you understand many people cannot.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

And this proves you read absolutely nothing... because I said none of that.

What I am saying is...

It doesn't matter if you are telling them to move to another location... or not... because regardless of how you come off about it, your idea is unrealistic, and impractical. It would have been accomplished by this point could it be done so easily.
You know what would happen instead? If the MILLIONS of people who commute around the suburbs attempted to crowd around the job centers, the prices in those areas would IMMEDIATELY inflate, and price the general population well outside of the district...thus what do you get? Commuters... and before you go off ranting...Give me one single example where this has not happened.

And don't play dumb with me... I might imply by your previous posts, although you are not telling them, you ARE suggesting it.



Yeah but Atlanta needs something to divert truck traffic away from I-285. I-285 is just no longer a bypass anymore, its an inner-city connector highway.

A tolled and limited exits, heavy zoning restricted around access points highway should be able to get the job done so long as zoning restrictions remain stringent enough to keep development away from the corridor. Unrealistic at this point but ever so needed.

For the billions spent on a Northern Arc that we know they would never limit zoning (developers have deep pockets to buy votes) we could spend that on a metro-wide transit network that would allows RESIDENTS and VOTERS the option to opt out of traffic.

[Otakumaster]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Ride Xpress bus into Midtown.

Well that's just not true. There are plenty of IT jobs all over metro Atlanta. Midtown is a booming tech area and even Downtown has IT jobs. Then again, some IT 100% work from home unless traveling.

The problem is jobs aren’t like apples. You can’t just pick the one you want.

[jero23]

Originally Posted by bu2

[/b]

Transportation planners often ignore this reality. Most people change jobs frequently. And many are two wage families.

Most transportation planners do anticipate things to be always be in flux when it comes to employment. However, the one thing that GDOT (to a certain extent DCA via ARC and GRTA/SRTA now the ATL) fails to anticipate is the shifts in things by not trying to make areas multimodal in transportation and land use. The problem is the regional (private sector and elected) leadership is so consumed with growth for the sake of growing without any type of consideration of quality of life and infrastructure needed to maintain and improve such. (Metro) Atlanta does need to take the backseat on this out-of-control growth because things are not going to get any better when its measuring stick of success is how fast this region is growing amongst other 'Tier 1 metros'.

[jero23]

Originally Posted by Gulch

ITT: GDOT should continue to throw billions at propping up an unsustainable road network so that people can continue to be slaves to the automobile.

Unfortunately, the much of the current landscape is incompatible for other modes of transportation other than express and/or commuter bus route with lower headway times and bus-rapid transit (BRT). As a matter of fact, even at this very moment aside from the ARC-designated areas in the most recent update to the WalkUPs Report, most of the region still does not have the developmental pattern density conductive for the sustainability of most modes of fixed route transit, i.e. rail transit, aside from BRT.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by chiatldal

You can make a personal choice about where you live, but your not entitle to tell another neighborhood how develop.

If another neighborhood wants to become pedestrian friendly and less car orient it's with in their right to do so cause it's their neighborhood.

This is why I brought up entitlement, but there a sense entitle that other neighborhoods most given into your suburban lifestyle.





DC city is a grid, DC metro area isn't.

LA, Chicago, Houston, DFW, Phoenix metros are largely a grid

NY, Boston, Philly, DC, Atlanta, Charlotte, Raleigh are not grids. basically But Piedmont and Northeast cities aren't.

Atlanta is built like a less dense version of Boston and DC

Houston, and DFW are built like a less dense version of LA.

Atlanta can never follow the path of Houston, and DFW because Atlanta is not a grid, What Atlanta can do is look at Boston and DC how they manage.

But it's pointless crying over how Atlanta is not like Houston.

Houston didn't have a very complete grid outside Loop 610 (their inner loop-not much further out than the Beltline) in 1982. Atlanta metro could vastly improve theirs if they chose to. There is definitely a "Can't do" attitude in Georgia. I'm finally understanding Jimmy Carter and all his "limits."


DC metro does seem to have a lot of E-W and N-S arterials in a way that Atlanta doesn't with its limited radial network. Boston does seem similar to Atlanta. A transportation expert made the comment a few years back that Atlanta had the 2nd worst arterial network of the top 20 metros. He didn't say who was #1, but I thought of Boston.

DC also has twice the density of Atlanta. In that sense, Atlanta is more like Houston or Dallas, although both those are much denser.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by cqholt

For the billions spent on a Northern Arc that we know they would never limit zoning (developers have deep pockets to buy votes) we could spend that on a metro-wide transit network that would allows RESIDENTS and VOTERS the option to opt out of traffic.

Well the Northern bypass would mainly benefit those people who already live out there. Tolls would pay for most of it. That transit network would do very little for those people and its operations would be subsidized probably 75-80%. And if it was a serious HRT network, you could probably only do the Clifton Corridor and Red line to Alpharetta for that cost (maybe not). $250-$350 million a mile is a lot more than the $30-40 million or so a mile for the highway.


As for numbers-http://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-info/spd/cda/sh99-hi/project-sheet.pdf
Texas is building 37.5 miles of Houston's 3rd loop for $1.28 billion. The Clifton corridor with light rail is projected to cost nearly $2 billion for about 7 or 8 miles.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by Otakumaster

The problem is jobs aren’t like apples. You can’t just pick the one you want.

...

Congrats that you can pick and choose where you work.

Surely you understand many people cannot.

...

This isn't Soviet Russia. If you are letting your job pick you instead of you picking your job you are doing it wrong.

You may not like your choices, but you have choices.

[Otakumaster]

Originally Posted by jsvh

This isn't Soviet Russia. If you are letting your job pick you instead of you picking your job you are doing it wrong.

You may not like your choices, but you have choices.

Right.

If the only job I got a offer was in Buckhead or Midtown and I make less than 60k I can live on the street or commute if I want to own.


That’s what you anti-car folks are suggesting.
That’s why most people aren’t taking your arguments seriously.