The MARTA Market

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by cqholt

I guess you missed this announcement?
https://twitter.com/CEOMARTA/status/...083556866?s=19
Also if DeKalb wants transit expansion, then they can pass transit expansion referendum like Atlanta and potentially Fulton County. Stop whining and crying, do something!

Did they announce the enhancements? Last I saw it was postponed

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by cqholt

https://www.bisnow.com/atlanta/news/...declines-95225

Makes sense. Transit ridership trends of decline on the national level are a recent thing, and are showing pretty strong support for rail over all. MARTA isn't any exception to the loses, and with all the planned expansions, is high-capacity services will likely only grow in value and demand relative to the local markets, as trends have already indicated.

I know that, as I'm looking for another job, I'm keeping my commute in mind with where I could live, including transit opportunities.

Originally Posted by arjay57

DeKalb should go to war on this. They've been paying in for 50 years and deserve better treatment.

And what, precisely, do you expect to happen? MARTA does not have enough money to just build DeKalb a new rail line. They can't just get magiced up new services. Either pay for the change you want, or be content with what you have.

Otherwise you'll end up like North Fulton, moaning about not getting service that's been in planning for years (and building off a service that's ALREADY more than what you were initially supposed to get) for free, until eventually you end up getting downgraded to a horrendously under-scales bus service that only exists because the state was already paying for more car lanes. To the point where the new rail service that was planned for your area is now no longer on the project list.

Yeah, no, let's not do that again.

Originally Posted by jsvh

What makes you think DeKalb is being mistreated? Who should DeKalb go to war with?

The City of Atlanta and other partners are footing most the bill to pay for a new rail line to the largest employment center in DeKalb. If anything, DeKalb is getting the best transit deal in the region.

You mean the one that's in the city of Atlanta, which has been waiting for transit since the 60s, and which, unlike DeKalb, is actually paying the same sales tax increase for expansion as the rest of the city? That one?

I'm not saying DeKalb should feel bad about the Clifton Corridor, but it's hardly like they're getting a gilded gift given the property tax losses from the annexation, the fire station they still have to operate in the middle of the Emory cluster, and the fact that they're still expected to pick up 61%-67% of the total capital costs on their own, even though they're only expected to build ~50% of the route miles.

That's not to mention that the City of Atlanta didn't pitch in any money for the I-20 East BRT line despite it having quite a bit of routing within the City.

DeKalb doesn't really have any room to say they deserve more service for free, but they do have some legitimate bones they could pick about the way the City of Altanta & MARTA have handled the cross-jurisdictional projects.

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

And what, precisely, do you expect to happen? MARTA does not have enough money to just build DeKalb a new rail line. They can't just get magiced up new services. Either pay for the change you want, or be content with what you have.

But, they have been paying...

[/quote]I'm not saying DeKalb should feel bad about the Clifton Corridor, but it's hardly like they're getting a gilded gift given the property tax losses from the annexation, the fire station they still have to operate in the middle of the Emory cluster, and the fact that they're still expected to pick up 61%-67% of the total capital costs on their own, even though they're only expected to build ~50% of the route miles.

That's not to mention that the City of Atlanta didn't pitch in any money for the I-20 East BRT line despite it having quite a bit of routing within the City.

DeKalb doesn't really have any room to say they deserve more service for free, but they do have some legitimate bones they could pick about the way the City of Altanta & MARTA have handled the cross-jurisdictional projects.[/quote]

The problem I have with these "Atlanta should pay only to the cent what is within Atlanta borders" or "Atlanta residents are paying for something those DeKalb-ites are using" is that many Atlanta people use those lines to leave Atlanta City Limits, and many Dekalb-ites take them to within Atlanta City Limits. In the end, much of it probably balances out. No need to nitpick over exact percentages of infrastructure within a city area. For instance, I live in Fulton, within Atlanta city limits, but do much of my retail and restaurant activity in Cobb. If Atlanta alone paid for the new bridge over the Chattahoochee on marietta Blvd. ten years ago or the brand new bridge over I-75 at Atlanta Rd., even though one is split and one is solely in Cobb, I'd have no problem with it, because both are in my life on a frequent basis.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by samiwas1

But, they have been paying...

And we reached an equilibrium of potential service against what they're paying.

Like I said, MARTA can't just magic up a new line for them from thin air, no matter how much DeKalb (and the rest of us to be honest) might like.

If DeKalb wants significantly more service than what it's getting, then it needs to pay more. The City of Atlanta figured this out already.

The problem I have with these "Atlanta should pay only to the cent what is within Atlanta borders" or "Atlanta residents are paying for something those DeKalb-ites are using" is that many Atlanta people use those lines to leave Atlanta City Limits, and many Dekalb-ites take them to within Atlanta City Limits. In the end, much of it probably balances out. No need to nitpick over exact percentages of infrastructure within a city area. For instance, I live in Fulton, within Atlanta city limits, but do much of my retail and restaurant activity in Cobb. If Atlanta alone paid for the new bridge over the Chattahoochee on marietta Blvd. ten years ago or the brand new bridge over I-75 at Atlanta Rd., even though one is split and one is solely in Cobb, I'd have no problem with it, because both are in my life on a frequent basis.

There's no argument from me here. I was simply making a counter point to one of jsvh's ongoing, and still false, statements as to the governmental equity of the Clifton Corridor.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

There's no argument from me here. I was simply making a counter point to one of jsvh's ongoing, and still false, statements as to the governmental equity of the Clifton Corridor.

Let it go. City of Atlanta has ponied up the largest share of Clifton Corridor funds. DeKalb has committed none despite the majority of the route being in DeKalb. CoA's MoreMARTA funding is locked in and everyone, including Emory is happy about the amount. Your attention would be better directed towards DeKalb and other sources for additional funding for transit there.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Let it go. City of Atlanta has ponied up the largest share of Clifton Corridor funds. DeKalb has committed none despite the majority of the route being in DeKalb. CoA's MoreMARTA funding is locked in and everyone, including Emory is happy about the amount. Your attention would be better directed towards DeKalb and other sources for additional funding for transit there.

Yeah, no, not when you're continuing to perpetuate false perceptions.

More MARTA's total $350 Mil. in committed Clifton Corridor funding, including the $100 Mil. in private contributions, will, at most, cover only 33%-39% of the final corridor's estimated capital costs, if fully matched by the feds. This will only fund the first ~50% of the route, with roughly 42% of the total route actually in the City's Limits. DeKalb is, as I said, expected to manage 61%-67% of the total capital costs. That that hasn't happened yet is not of concern, since technically no money from More MARTA has been spend on the Clifton Corridor either.

Basically, the City is getting a sweetheart deal here. Not only is it paying for the least expensive part, while hitting the biggest target at a lower cost than its share of route miles, but it's also getting said target to pay for part of that! Oh, and it's getting the additional sales tax, property tax, and DeKalb fire service to boot.

I'm not trying to redo the funding agreements at all, since they're basically what I was hoping for (actually better) the entire time. Especially with the equal demands of the BeltLine to find similar backers to help pad those route miles out.

I just can not stand you putting out false ideas in an attempt to paint the narrative in a way it shouldn't be. DeKalb is going to have enough trouble whittling down its own project list without people throwing inflammatory, and inaccurate rhetoric into the bonfires of multi-jurisdictional agreements.



Now, to swing this post back on-topic. I had a realization the other day that MARTA's setting itself up to do something new with the I-20 East Heavy Rail line. Since it's started the TOD planning as part of the over all route planning, perhaps it can take advantage of this MARTA Market demand to pad out the DeKalb More MARTA tax increase. It might be enough to do some real good funding wise.

[jsvh]

MoreMARTA is locked in. DeKalb has committed $0. Focus your efforts there.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by jsvh

MoreMARTA is locked in. DeKalb has committed $0.

More MARTA isn't locked in until the money is spent. There is ample opportunity to change things should the need arise in the coming years.

Focus your efforts there.

It doesn't help those efforts with people perpetuating false narratives as to funding obligations. Fussing about the city's share of the Clifton Corridor's funding, when it's so easily shown as a net positive for the city compared to the county, will fuel already emerging frustrations.

Maybe try a bit of your own advice and, rather than continuing to fret over the City's contribution to the Clifton Corridor, you and I focused on getting DeKalb into the More MARTA game.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

More MARTA isn't locked in until the money is spent. There is ample opportunity to change things should the need arise in the coming years.

I could have sworn folks were telling me last year that the project list was locked in by the city council, approved by voters, and legally couldn't be changed.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by arjay57

I could have sworn folks were telling me last year that the project list was locked in by the city council, approved by voters, and legally couldn't be changed.

The over all Project List is locked down, with a legally binding list of potential spending options. That was locked in by the city council, approved by voters, and legally can't be changed. That's why new projects can't be added to it not matter how much you might like to.

This list, however, included more projects than there is funding.

The prioritization of the projects has been selected by MARTA, and approved by the MARTA Board, however it can be redone if needed. Say, if the state wanted to pitch in money for any specific project, or if the Feds paid more than the expected matching (or less for that matter), or if some project comes in under budget, or any number of scenarios that might change final outcomes from the estimates, then the prioritization will need to be reworked to compensate.

That prioritization is not a hard, permanently binding thing, and thus the funds are not fully committed until they are spent.