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Old 06-08-2018, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Vinings
5,940 posts, read 2,908,227 times
Reputation: 3178

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There was some talk last year (I think from GDOT) of a HSR between Chattanooga airport and Atlanta airport, that would stop about 8 or so times, including at Town Center, Cumberland, and Downtown Atlanta.

I don't know what's going on with it. When the news broke we all said it was never going to happen, and so far we're right.
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Old 06-08-2018, 12:11 PM
 
9,909 posts, read 6,899,784 times
Reputation: 3017
Quote:
Originally Posted by brownhornet View Post
But my question is, why in the HELL do we still not have something like this?

Florida has some of the highest numbers of toll roads in the country.

If you want people to have a real choice of transit, they need a fair choice.

Tolls alone (not including gas, parking, depreciation, insurance, maintenance, etc) cost $19.34 between Miami and Orlando. Current Brightline fares (between West Palm and Miami) are $10.

Florida is not some magic exception, it works like most of the rest of the world where if people are faced with a real costs of their choices transit is much better off.

Brightline needs to hit only about half its ridership projections to be profitable.

We are missing out on a real opportunity here in metro Atlanta to partner with private transit providers to work in partnership with real estate interests to redevelop sites like the Gultch and the Doraville GM site.
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Old 06-08-2018, 12:32 PM
 
236 posts, read 82,966 times
Reputation: 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattCW View Post
To the bolded, it's because MARTA keeps cutting bus service. Take a look at what's on deck for the August service changes. They're cutting back service in lots of places to 30 minute headways or greater. People aren't going to use transit when if they miss a connection, they're stuck for half an hour. MARTA needs robust inner-city bus routes, something they can't seem to grasp.
That's curious, because MARTA's charts from 2008-2017 show a steady decline. Are you saying that cuts in bus service were that long ago? Apparently more than half of the consistent riders use MARTA "because they have no other option." (2014 report) So for the majority, MARTA isn't about convenience. It sucks they get the crappy end of stick (I live near a station so things are easier), but if people were really set on using the services, they'd leave the house earlier.

Edit* My lack of empathy here comes from using bus and train in Germany, too. You can depend on a 15+ window more than you can a 5 min window unless you're taking the Straßenbahn, which normally is given far more space on the road and moves about more seamlessly. You can get everywhere, pretty much, even dorfs, but it's nowhere near a guarantee that you can get everywhere on time. I still leave 20+ earlier. As well, Deutsche Bahn or other regional transit agencies tend to have a good policy on refunds or returns in the event that your scheduled ride is delayed in some way. Not sure if MARTA even does that? But I've never even tried, and now I'm shocked I never have.
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Old 06-08-2018, 01:00 PM
 
291 posts, read 90,997 times
Reputation: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by primaltech View Post
There was some talk last year (I think from GDOT) of a HSR between Chattanooga airport and Atlanta airport, that would stop about 8 or so times, including at Town Center, Cumberland, and Downtown Atlanta.

I don't know what's going on with it. When the news broke we all said it was never going to happen, and so far we're right.
Still slowly working its way through the long grind that is the FRA approval process:

https://www.fra.dot.gov/Page/P0451

Latest update on that page:

Quote:
On September 12, 2017, FRA issued the Final EIS/ROD for Atlanta – Chattanooga HSGT. The ROD formally selects the I-75 corridor alternative as the preferred alternative and will support FRA, GDOT, and TDOT in making decisions concerning equipment (including train technology) and maximum operating speeds. Any additional study, including Tier II NEPA documentation, is contingent upon additional funding being secured, presumably by GDOT or TDOT.
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Old 06-08-2018, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Vinings
5,940 posts, read 2,908,227 times
Reputation: 3178


Sure would be cool.

Especially since the NW side lacks MARTA rail. It would give us something at least.
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Old 06-08-2018, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Decatur, GA
4,908 posts, read 3,708,076 times
Reputation: 2465
Quote:
Originally Posted by seussie View Post
That's curious, because MARTA's charts from 2008-2017 show a steady decline. Are you saying that cuts in bus service were that long ago? Apparently more than half of the consistent riders use MARTA "because they have no other option." (2014 report) So for the majority, MARTA isn't about convenience.
Yes, they were, I believe the big Beverly Hall cuts were in 2008 or so and the service has never come back.

Quote:
It sucks they get the crappy end of stick (I live near a station so things are easier), but if people were really set on using the services, they'd leave the house earlier.

So blame the rider? It's not even about modes being late as not having choices. Many bus routes in the new changes will have headways of 30 minutes or more. How is that any kind of proper service?

Quote:
Edit* My lack of empathy here comes from using bus and train in Germany, too. You can depend on a 15+ window more than you can a 5 min window unless you're taking the Straßenbahn, which normally is given far more space on the road and moves about more seamlessly. You can get everywhere, pretty much, even dorfs, but it's nowhere near a guarantee that you can get everywhere on time. I still leave 20+ earlier. As well, Deutsche Bahn or other regional transit agencies tend to have a good policy on refunds or returns in the event that your scheduled ride is delayed in some way. Not sure if MARTA even does that? But I've never even tried, and now I'm shocked I never have.
What's your point here?
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Old 06-08-2018, 02:25 PM
 
236 posts, read 82,966 times
Reputation: 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattCW View Post
Yes, they were, I believe the big Beverly Hall cuts were in 2008 or so and the service has never come back.
Well that’s awful to hear.

Quote:
So blame the rider? It's not even about modes being late as not having choices. Many bus routes in the new changes will have headways of 30 minutes or more. How is that any kind of proper service?
No, not blaming the rider. Just saying there comes a time where if someone wants to do something, you just do it.

Quote:
What's your point here?
I lack empathy for arguments about convenience. Didn’t think it needed to turn into a conversation. I also think it is because MARTA was my only options for years.
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Old 06-08-2018, 05:56 PM
 
3,409 posts, read 8,482,758 times
Reputation: 1922
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Florida has some of the highest numbers of toll roads in the country.

If you want people to have a real choice of transit, they need a fair choice.

Tolls alone (not including gas, parking, depreciation, insurance, maintenance, etc) cost $19.34 between Miami and Orlando. Current Brightline fares (between West Palm and Miami) are $10.

Florida is not some magic exception, it works like most of the rest of the world where if people are faced with a real costs of their choices transit is much better off.

Brightline needs to hit only about half its ridership projections to be profitable.

We are missing out on a real opportunity here in metro Atlanta to partner with private transit providers to work in partnership with real estate interests to redevelop sites like the Gultch and the Doraville GM site.
Florida and Japan are very similar.
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Old 06-08-2018, 06:42 PM
 
4,240 posts, read 2,821,095 times
Reputation: 2758
Quote:
Originally Posted by seussie View Post
That's curious, because MARTA's charts from 2008-2017 show a steady decline. Are you saying that cuts in bus service were that long ago? Apparently more than half of the consistent riders use MARTA "because they have no other option." (2014 report) So for the majority, MARTA isn't about convenience. It sucks they get the crappy end of stick (I live near a station so things are easier), but if people were really set on using the services, they'd leave the house earlier.
Yeah...if you're really set on using it, that's what you do. But with 30-minute or more headways typical of many (most?) MARTA bus routes, and you adding another 15-20 minutes on the front of that...you might waste a pretty hefty amount of time just waiting. MARTA's bus routes are very meandering and heavily focus towards midtown and downtown. There's not a single east-west line between NW Atlanta and NE Atlanta. You have to go into Midtown. To even get from the shopping center at I75 and Paces to the business area up at 285 and Northside (a 4-mile car trip), involves almost two hours of time and 25 miles of distance. If they want ridership to increase, they need to fix the convenience aspect of it.

As for the topic...I think commuter rail is the biggest necessity of our metro. Getting around in town isn't all that bad...it's the longer commutes and all of those travelers clogging things up.
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Old 06-08-2018, 07:18 PM
 
7,690 posts, read 9,534,752 times
Reputation: 5657
I think Florida is really sort of its own animal because of how massive tourism is.

Interestingly, the governor turned down federal funding for a train from Tampa to Orlando a couple of years go. He said the state would end up subsidizing it. He's PROBABLY right, but failed to think about how much money it would bring in from tourists extending their stays. So many people flock to Orlando every year, they might stay an extra day or two if they knew they could hop a train and get to the beach, either in Tampa or on the Space Coast. Also, I-4 is an extremely heavily traveled thoroughfare, so relieving that congestion would be great.

Joe Henderson: Rick Scott may have been right rejecting high-speed rail – Florida Politics

Anyway...I guess the point I'm trying to make is if they can't make tourism hubs like Tampa to Orlando work, what chance does Atlanta to Chattanooga have?

I do, however agree with the above statement. Commuter rail is by far, the single most important issue facing this metro. I really can't believe we can't get our S together on it. Point fingers all you want, it's this person's fault, it's that person's, it's too expensive, blah blah blah. It's all noise. We're all equally pathetic for not being able to overcome all that to make it happen. And it's going to cost us all plenty in the long run.
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