U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Georgia > Atlanta
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-10-2018, 01:57 PM
 
3,511 posts, read 8,643,796 times
Reputation: 1996

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by brownhornet View Post
But my question is, why in the HELL do we still not have something like this? Go figure.
Simple short answer to your question: because we leave all of our transit in the hands of government instead of letting the private sector build something like this, or Texas Central, or the rail companies in Japan and Europe for that matter. So we got duped into paying billions of tax dollars and have very little to show for. Only a few miles of LRT and BRT if we're lucky, which will barely put a dent in our congestion. Look at the California HSR and see Californian's tax dollars at work. It may not even connect San Francisco to Los Angeles (and San Diego) as planned.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-10-2018, 03:38 PM
 
10,194 posts, read 7,197,774 times
Reputation: 3150
Yep. Instead of trying to get Amazon to the Gulch we should be trying to land a big transit company to build a TOD on top of their new regional rail hub.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-10-2018, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Decatur, GA
5,088 posts, read 3,863,112 times
Reputation: 2603
Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAandATL View Post
Simple short answer to your question: because we leave all of our transit in the hands of government instead of letting the private sector build something like this, or Texas Central, or the rail companies in Japan and Europe for that matter. So we got duped into paying billions of tax dollars and have very little to show for. Only a few miles of LRT and BRT if we're lucky, which will barely put a dent in our congestion. Look at the California HSR and see Californian's tax dollars at work. It may not even connect San Francisco to Los Angeles (and San Diego) as planned.
You do realize that rail services in Europe are very heavily subsidized, right?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-10-2018, 06:04 PM
 
10,194 posts, read 7,197,774 times
Reputation: 3150
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattCW View Post
You do realize that rail services in Europe are very heavily subsidized, right?
Not necessarily. They certainly do better than we do. The London Underground for example has a 107% Farebox recovery ratio (turns a profit). And has partnerships with MTR Corp (The same company that runs the Hong Kong Subway and made US$2.1 billion in profit) and Deutsche Bahn (The company that runs Rail in Germany and turned a net profit of 716 million euros last year).

Amtrak is a great example of our issues. It fails to make money because the government won't let it decide it's own route network on its own and it has to shift resources away from profitable faster routes like the NE corridor towards low-ridership routes that often get stuck behind freight trains but stop at politically important rural areas.

The solution is not no government involvement, it is more private partnerships and less government regulation. It doesn't have to turn a profit for the government right away for it to be a successful partnership.

Last edited by jsvh; 06-10-2018 at 06:47 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-10-2018, 06:11 PM
 
1,622 posts, read 663,936 times
Reputation: 1408
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Yep. Instead of trying to get Amazon to the Gulch we should be trying to land a big transit company to build a TOD on top of their new regional rail hub.
Is there any good reason why both can't happen?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-10-2018, 06:18 PM
 
10,194 posts, read 7,197,774 times
Reputation: 3150
Quote:
Originally Posted by citidata18 View Post
Is there any good reason why both can't happen?
Great point.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-10-2018, 07:53 PM
 
4,601 posts, read 3,039,556 times
Reputation: 2990
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Not necessarily. They certainly do better than we do. The London Underground for example has a 107% Farebox recovery ratio (turns a profit).
I read this Wikipedia the other day, and am trying to figure out where they get the 107% from. The source is this document. It says in 2015/2016, that fare revenue from London Underground was 2,559, while operating expenses were 2,676. Fare recovery appears to be 95.6%, which is still very good. Of course, even a two mile trip on London Underground is more than twice the cost of a MARTA fare which will take you 14 miles, so that helps. An 18 mile trip costs more than three times as much.

But, I'm curious about their 2018/2019 budget, which figures a firebox recovery of 71.6% of operating costs prior to extra financing.

Quote:
And has partnerships with MTR Corp (The same company that runs the Hong Kong Subway and made US$2.1 billion in profit)
Mostly real estate...all the more reason for MARTA to leverage TODs.

Quote:
The solution is not no government involvement, it is more private partnerships and less government regulation. It doesn't have to turn a profit for the government right away for it to be a successful partnership.
Yes...private investment would be a great thing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-10-2018, 08:30 PM
 
10,194 posts, read 7,197,774 times
Reputation: 3150
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
Fare recovery appears to be 95.6%, which is still very good. Of course, even a two mile trip on London Underground is more than twice the cost of a MARTA fare which will take you 14 miles, so that helps. An 18 mile trip costs more than three times as much.
Yeah, MARTA needs to go to more distance based fares. Not only will they make more money on longer trips but shorter trips too. There are a lot of times I don't take MARTA because I am with someone only going a mile away and a $4 UberPool is cheaper than $5 for two MARTA fares.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-11-2018, 07:15 AM
 
272 posts, read 104,838 times
Reputation: 282
distance-fares would be awesome, because I know too many people who've been in wrecks for me to ever rideshare again.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-11-2018, 01:50 PM
Status: "♪ "Everything is awesome..." ♪" (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: Prepperland
13,453 posts, read 9,538,666 times
Reputation: 9378
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattCW View Post
You do realize that rail services in Europe are very heavily subsidized, right?
Electric traction rail is the most efficient form of land transportation. It has the best potential for dominating the 21st century. Yet when American governments are involved, electric rail becomes the most inefficient and expensive form. Perhaps the lesson is to get government entirely out of the way.

Instead of public subsidy (with its meddling), let us consider granting mass transit rail a better carrot - zero tax liability. Any company 100% involved in the manufacture, installation, operation or maintenance of electric traction rail mass transit and its employees are tax exempt.

The only way they make a profit is to get routes built and passengers moving.

I suspect that we would find a far different result, under those conditions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Georgia > Atlanta
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top