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Comparing a brownfield development to a greenfield, that was controlled by the team is apples to oranges. Atlanta Braves controlled The Battery, so it was 1 owner and much easier to develop. The area around The Benz is a collection of state-owned, railroad-owned, and privately owned property; unlike The Battery not controlled by 1 owner and master developer.
Completely agree with what you said, but my statement was directed at jsvh comment, "Stadiums don't spur development." Given all of the developments that have happened since 2013, I think it is beyond doubt Cumberland has reaped major investments as a result of STP to Cobb.
I think it is beyond doubt Cumberland has reaped major investments as a result of STP to Cobb.
What makes you think that?
Per my previous post, even companies that were in the county before STP had to be given grants and tax breaks in order to remain in the county after the stadium relocated. They also are having to give grants and tax breaks to attract companies to the site:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh
Yep. I am sure there are some companies that benefit from being near stadiums, such as elevator parts companies and cable providers apparently .
So with all these handouts, on the whole you do not see any real net benefits from the boondogles that are these tax payer handouts to stadiums. Be that MBS, STP, or Turner.
I see nothing that indicates companies like Thyssenkrupp would have avoided Cobb without STP.
And while the underlying cause may or may not be more macro level economic conditions in Cobb, the county budget issues clearly are not being solved by having this stadium around:
Former Cobb County Chairman Tim Lee was fond of calling the decision to build a taxpayer-funded stadium for the Atlanta Braves the “biggest economic development deal in our county’s history.”
In 2015, two years after the deal was approved and one year after his own finance director warned that county spending was quickly overtaking its revenue, Lee issued the following statement:
“Thanks to serious, conservative leadership, Cobb County will realize a 60 percent annual return on investment from the SunTrust Park partnership,” he wrote. “In fact, it will be the first private public partnership of its kind to result in a return on investment to taxpayers in the very first year.”
Lee, who could not be reached for comment, was voted out, and county officials now say Cobb will be lucky if it breaks even on the project. Although it accounts for only a fraction of the county’s budget, the ballpark has become a potent symbol for many of irresponsible spending and skewed priorities. Since the first pitch in April, fees for everything from senior centers to business licenses have gone up. Libraries are in danger of closing, and there’s talk of a new penny sales tax to fund the police.
This, despite a record-high tax digest, which may or may not be attributable to the stadium in some areas.
J.C. Bradbury, an economics professor at Kennesaw State University, said the projected economic impact of the stadium was never methodologically sound. More recently, the county has approved employee raises, new parks and large projects with no operating budget.
“It’s not just the Braves,” Bradbury said. “It is an excess expense, but the cost of a lot of things has gone up.”
Today, Cobb is facing a $30 to $55 million budget shortfall after raiding $21 million in rainy-day funds to plug a gaping hole in the 2018 budget.
Per my previous post, even companies that were in the county before STP had to be given grants and tax breaks in order to remain in the county after the stadium relocated. They also are having to give grants and tax breaks to attract companies to the site:
I don't have time to give a dissertation how grants for tax abatement works, but suffice to say Cobb County is not giving Thyssenkrupp or the developer of the building $264 Million in grants. In a nutshell the office building costs $264 Million and the building's developer would pay no taxes on the improved property during the first year, with payment increasing each year until it reached 100 percent after 11 years. Ultimately the tax abatement is passed on to Thyssenkrupp by having a lower annual lease. Make sense?
Have you heard of Invest Atlanta or the Development Authority of Fulton County? Every month they doll out tax abatements to companies just like Cobb did above - so I would not hang your hat on that as a data point for your thesis. Even worse, both of these groups doll out tax abatements in Fulton county to retail and apartment developers.
If you can read the details I have posted below and the info I already provided and not come to the conclusion STP has provided a major economic stimulus to Cobb County that they probaly would not have seen otherwise, then I think for me to continue this debate is insanity.
Quote:
It’s been more than 15 years since the last high-quality office building went up in the district.
The new buildings include Riverwood 200 and 1100 Overton, the new home of Columbus-based Synovus’s Atlanta area operations. Pope and Land Enterprises is developing a headquarters for Comcast’s southeastern U.S. operations in The Battery Atlanta. HD Supply is relocating its operations under one roof at the $100-million Encore at I-75 and Cumberland Boulevard.
Aarons, the lease-to-own giant, has also decided to make the Cumberland-Galleria area its home. Gas South consolidated its Marietta customer call center into its Cumberland headquarters in 2015 and extended its lease through 2025.
In all, more than 4 million square feet of new commercial space is being added to Cumberland along with an impressive 7.2 million square feet of residential. That combination is creating the much desired live-work-play environment that attracts a millennial workforce.
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“Think of what a shift that is in demographics. Cobb County is now the No. 1 fastest-growing millennial population in all of Metro Atlanta.
And while the underlying cause may or may not be more macro level economic conditions in Cobb, the county budget issues clearly are not being solved by having this stadium around
It was never supposed to! There was no budget issue in Cobb when the stadium deal was signed, so it didn't solve one, and it also didn't cause one.
Everything was looking fine with the budget, as late as 3 years after the 2013 Braves deal. Things would have been fine still right now, but then Chairman Lee, in a desperate bid to keep his job before the 2016 election, selfishly lowered property taxes by 0.5 mills. Gutting the revenue needed to fully fund county services.
And then because it's so difficult to increase taxes in Cobb, we haven't easily been able to undo that mistake. Because every time Chairman Boyce (a responsible leader and financial steward) even brings up the topic, all the right-wing crazy tea party patriot groups yell like morons about supposed (nonexistent) government waste.
So yes, we have a financial issue in the county, but you could at least do us a favor and quit spreading misinfo/ignorance about it being because of SunTrust Park/Braves. At least let us be honest and informed about what the budget issue is here in Cobb, so that we can focus on it and fix this situation.
I don't have time to give a dissertation how grants for tax abatement works, but suffice to say Cobb County is not giving Thyssenkrupp or the developer of the building $264 Million in grants. In a nutshell the office building costs $264 Million and the building's developer would pay no taxes on the improved property during the first year, with payment increasing each year until it reached 100 percent after 11 years. Ultimately the tax abatement is passed on to Thyssenkrupp by having a lower annual lease. Make sense?
Have you heard of Invest Atlanta or the Development Authority of Fulton County? Every month they doll out tax abatements to companies just like Cobb did above - so I would not hang your hat on that as a data point for your thesis. Even worse, both of these groups doll out tax abatements in Fulton county to retail and apartment developers.
No need to be condescending to me about how development grants work. I have been involved with them first hand.
But the debate about how much of a net benefit those grants / tax breaks are is a separate discussion. You don't need a stadium to give other companies grants / tax breaks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlanta3000
If you can read the details I have posted below and the info I already provided and not come to the conclusion STP has provided a major economic stimulus to Cobb County that they probaly would not have seen otherwise, then I think for me to continue this debate is insanity.
Pulling random facts about demographic or economic growth in Cobb does not prove anything. Most if not all metro counties are booming.
You are providing zero evidence that any net benefit is due to the stadium.
So you don't think that their choice of locating in short walking distance of the Battery/STP, has anything to do with Battery/STP?
I mean they might have chosen Cobb anyway, but that certainly seems like it was an attractor, for the location they are considering.
What benefit do you think an elevator parts company gains from an MLB stadium that an auto parts company does not?
Individuals may have their preferences for being around baseball stadium crowds, but how exactly would you sell the idea of locating near an MLB stadium as more beneficial to share holders than locating near something like transit or locating further out on cheaper land instead?
And why is there all this defense of STP? This thread is about the Benz and development around it. What exactly do you think is special about STP compared to the Benz to suggest that STP is somehow a driver of development where as MBS is not?
No need to be condescending to me about how development grants work. I have been involved with them first hand.
But the debate about how much of a net benefit those grants / tax breaks are is a separate discussion. You don't need a stadium to give other companies grants / tax breaks.
Pulling random facts about demographic or economic growth in Cobb does not prove anything. Most if not all metro counties are booming.
You are providing zero evidence that any net benefit is due to the stadium.
It was not my intention to be condescending about how development grants work. However if you are familiar with how they work, why would you criticize Cobb County for using them to attract development when practically every county in the frickin' US of A uses them for economic development purposes?
How is it a random fact Cobb County had not built ONE office building IN THE LAST FIFTEEN YEARS, which included the biggest economic period in US history and led up to the Great Recession, but suddenly Cobb welcomes Suntrust Park and 5 offices buildings and over 2 million sqft of office are built from 2014 - 2017.
How is it a random fact that yesterday the developers of Suntrust Park are trying to get Cobb County to approve the largest building in Cobb County - 32 floors? When was the last time a 32 story building was developed in Atlanta?
How is it a random fact that in the past 18 months since Suntrust Park opened Cobb County has the fastest growing Millennial population?
To say I have provided zero evidence there has been any net benefit due to STP moving to Cobb when the only data point you provided to support your thesis is: Genuine Parts Company had to move the HQ literally around the corner - in the same zip code. Honestly your logic is quite frankly childish.
And why is there all this defense of STP? This thread is about the Benz and development around it. What exactly do you think is special about STP compared to the Benz to suggest that STP is somehow a driver of development where as MBS is not?
Cheese n' Rice - none of us are here are coming to the defense of STP. Facts are facts - plain and simple. Would I have preferred the Braves stay in the CoA - hell YES. Just because I have this opinion I cannot then craft an argument Cobb County has not benefited economically from STP.
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