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I'm honestly not here for a discussion of semantics. Both Combined Statistical Areas (CSAs) and Consolidated Metropolitan Statistical Areas (CMSAs) are acceptable terms for multiple metropolitan areas that now act as one functional region. No real difference and I'm not sure why you chose to even fixate on those acronyms. I could care less that you left an apostrophe out of "Tyson's" and a 'c' out of "San Francisco". I would like to think that the omissions in no way detract from your larger point.
Sure this was a minor technical point but I brought it up because in other discussions across C-D and probably in this subforum, some people are unaware of what the shift away from the CMSA term means for metropolitan areas overall. I merely noted this in an attempt to be helpful amidst the introduction of new terminology and the retirement of old terminology, as well as changes in criteria and standards, that seems to be constantly occurring at the Census Bureau/OMB these days. I would note that according to the Census Bureau, "The CMSA concept was retired in 2003 with the introduction of the Core Based Statistical Area concepts." https://factfinder.census.gov/help/e..._area_cmsa.htm
And surely you understand the difference between changes in technical terminology and making simple typos--and for the record, the actual name of the Virginia edge city just outside of DC is indeed Tysons Corner as I stated with no apostrophe.
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Your opinion on Baltimore is your opinion.
That much is obvious, but the implication is that my opinion has no or much less grounding in reality than your own--which is, of course, something that we'll simply agree to disagree on.
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I think the most compelling argument you make is Baltimore has it's own media market. But then again so does Flint, MI which is part of Metro Detroit. I'm glad you make the argument that Baltimore has its own media market because that lends credence to my argument to the other Bu2 poster of San Jose being a node of San Francisco (San Jose does NOT have its own media market).
Fair point regarding San Jose, but it should be noted that the reasons I gave for Baltimore *not* being "nothing more than an outlying CBD/industrial node of DC at this point" as you stated are to be considered collectively and not in isolation of each other.
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The remainder of Baltimore's "institutions" are the remnants of it's bygone functionally independent past. There's a reason why it's airport is called BWI (Baltimore-WASHINGTON International). Despite your recent residency in the area I think for everyone else it's clear why an airport 10 miles from central Baltimore and 40 miles from central DC would even bother to have Washington in its title.
Why put the word institutions in quotes as if they are imaginary or feigned??? These institutions actually do exist and still play a vital role in the maintenance of Baltimore's unique identity as a city. Furthermore, although Baltimore is not as prominent as it once was among American cities, the larger Baltimore region has always continued to grow and the fact that many, if not most, of these institutions remain in some form or fashion indicates that they were built at a time when Baltimore could actually sustain (most of) them going forward. Also, I think you aren't giving these institutions credit for actually having helped Baltimore retain a great deal of its identity and independence. Furthermore, I'd argue that when you compare Baltimore's defining institutions to those of a peer city without its own version of DC just down the road (such as St. Louis or Cleveland), one could conclude that Baltimore has done reasonably well in preserving those institutions and making the necessary adjustments to ensure they remain relevant in the 21st century. In other words, they aren't just relics from a bygone era and have grown up right along with the city and the larger region.
As far as the nomenclature of Baltimore's major commercial airport goes, for whatever reasons it also includes the name of its southern neighbor, one can be assured that Baltimore's supposed status as "nothing more than an outlying CBD/industrial node of DC at this point" is absolutely NOT among them as the airport's name was officially changed from the original Friendship International Airport (built in 1947) to Baltimore-Washington International Airport in 1973 when Baltimore was still comfortably the larger city, of probably metro, of the two. But it's pretty easy to see that the airport's geographic location--a few miles south of Baltimore proper and a couple more miles north of Washington proper but less so for its northern suburbs--played a significant role. I do not see that being the case if the airport were built to the northwest or the northeast of Baltimore.
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You may want to reassess your memories/knowledge of Baltimore.
Your suggestion is noted, but I assure you my memories and knowledge of Baltimore are quite intact.
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If I was making an argument for Atlanta's potential primacy I would throw in it's exceedingly busy airport (even though it has just one) as well as its housing of Fortune 500 headquarters. Obviously Atlanta, Dallas, and Houston are attracting more Fortune 500 companies (like they are attracting more residents) because the costs are simply much lower than in your traditional five primary cities but what better catalyst to achieving primacy yourself?
Baltimore isn't the home of even ONE Fortune 500 headquarters. Not one. DC nodes on the Maryland side such as Silver Spring have one and Bethesda has two. My "overstated" Tyson's Corner has FIVE Fortune 500 headquarters with another on the way. I repeat, Baltimore has none.
It appears that you have changed the goalposts here as I was never making an argument about Baltimore's "potential primacy," whatever that may entail. I specifically stated that my point of contention was your assessment that Baltimore is "nothing more than an outlying CBD/industrial node of DC at this point" akin to Tysons Corner.
It is true, unfortunately, that at this point in time, Baltimore has no F500 corporate headquarters. There are many factors working together to produce such an outcome and for the sake of brevity I won't list them, but I will make three points here. Firstly, the loss of F500 headquarters in many cases today represents the loss of prestige more than anything and may or may not result in substantial job losses; it all depends on how the loss occurred (acquisition, relocation, loss of revenue, etc.). Secondly, the loss of F500 headquarters is something that the the state of Maryland has been having a problem with more broadly but Baltimore has been affected the most by virtue of having had the most to begin with combined with declining QOL factors in the city exacerbating the situation (which some may argue is a result of the losses of corporate headquarters to begin with). You noted that Maryland has another F500 headquarters in Silver Spring, but unfortunately that company, Discovery Communications, is in the process of relocating out of state, and state and county governments shelled out a boatload of incentives in desperation to ensure that Marriott's corporate headquarters did not leave Montgomery County. And thirdly, Baltimore and Maryland have not done a very good job of creating new companies to inevitably replace the legacy companies which simply don't stick around forever. Of course you know that a region's economic health goes far beyond the number of corporate headquarters it has, and when you look at things more comprehensively, no one would mistake Baltimore as a boomtown at all but I also don't think they'd liken it to Detroit at its worst. Nevertheless the city has work to do. And while I believe you drastically overreached in your description of Baltimore in relation to DC today, one cannot ignore the fact that one thing that has helped to keep the region afloat through economic upheavals is the massive federal government presence in the area (CMS, SSI, Ft. Meade, etc) and that its proximity and transit connections to DC will most likely serve as a prominent catalyst in a future regional economic revival as DC becomes ever more expensive (thanks Amazon) and Baltimore provides an authentic, traditional urban experience for a fraction of the cost compared to DC and this will compel more and more professionals to consider it as a place to live, which should result in more economic investment.
As far as Tysons Corner goes, it is a postwar suburban edge city with very little of the economic, social, and cultural issues that have plagued post-industrial cities like Baltimore; it most likely would not exist if DC didn't have fixed political boundaries; and VA is widely known to be the most business-friendly part of the metropolitan area and thus lands most of the corporate relocations/expansions over MD and DC itself. As a matter of fact, 2/3's of metropolitan Washington's F500 headquarters--10 out of 15 total--are in NoVA. So if you're giving the presence of F500 corporate headquarters that much weight in your assessment, you may wish to reconsider exactly who is an "outlying CBD/industrial node" to who.
I would also argue that you have erred in reducing Baltimore, both the city and the larger region, as a CBD/industrial node in your assessment. Although that is the primary measure upon which metropolitan areas are defined, it excludes other significant aspects of cities and their larger regions (neighborhoods, institutions, culture, history, etc) that define them, make them unique, and preclude most reasonable people from precluding that a place like Baltimore can be simplistically defined as such. Even in pop culture, Baltimore is largely defined on its own terms according to its own history, culture, traditions, etc and not in association with DC. To put it succinctly, Baltimore existed before DC and without DC it would continue to exist, albeit notably reduced in stature, as a city of some size and importance. On the other hand, NoVA and the Maryland suburbs would be extremely reduced in stature without the presence of DC, and a place like Tysons Corner simply doesn't exist at all. In conclusion, Baltimore is the second-largest principal city of the Washington/Baltimore region and effectively reducing its status to that as a suburb of DC is just not accurate. I won't continue the discussion about San Jose since I'm not as familiar with it in relation to San Francisco, but suffice to say that Baltimore's counterpart in the Bay Area is Oakland and in the DFW Metroplex, it is Ft. Worth--and while there are certainly strong ties that exist between these second cities and their bigger siblings, none of them can be accurately described as economic outposts or suburbs of their bigler siblings. At all.
Not sure when the last time you have been to San Fran is but the bolded underlined isn't accurate at all. The entire area between Downtown San Francisco and San Jose is COMPLETELY developed along U.S.101, I-280 and I-880 and becomes no less dense than I-85 through Gwinnett County. That is literally like driving the section of I-85 between I-285 and GA-316 for 5 concurrent times of seamless identical development. Not only is that area developed but the areas South of San Jose would be developed to the distance we would consider as Stockbridge.
I wouldn't consider them MSA's because both Metro's are strong enough to survive independently, however; both Metro's also support the other in terms one provides economic activity / development for the other and neither would be where they are today without the other present. They are a CSA.
Also, the combined population count for the San Francisco / San Jose CSA is about 8.8 Million, not 6.8 Million
That is about 1.5 Million more than Houston.
You would see its 6.8 if you actually read all my post.
Big Basin and many areas north of there are wilderness. So you go west of that thin strip along San Francisco Bay and you have wilderness.
It is true, unfortunately, that at this point in time, Baltimore has no F500 corporate headquarters.
Greater Baltimore (the city and surrounding suburbs in Baltimore County) is home to four Fortune 1000 companies: Grace Chemicals (in Columbia), Legg Mason, T. Rowe Price, and McCormick & Company (in Hunt Valley). Other companies that call Greater Baltimore home include AAI Corporation (in Hunt Valley), Adams Express Company, Brown Advisory, Alex Brown, First Home Mortgage Corporation, FTI Consulting, Petroleum & Resources Corporation, Vertis, Prometric, Sylvan Learning, Laureate Education, Under Armour, Polk Audio, DAP, 180s, DeBaufre Bakeries, Wm. T. Burnett & Co, Old Mutual Financial Network, Firaxis Games (in Sparks), Sinclair Broadcast Group (in Hunt Valley), Fila USA (in Sparks), and JoS. A. Bank Clothiers (in Hampstead).
Greater Baltimore (the city and surrounding suburbs in Baltimore County) is home to four Fortune 1000 companies: Grace Chemicals (in Columbia), Legg Mason, T. Rowe Price, and McCormick & Company (in Hunt Valley). Other companies that call Greater Baltimore home include AAI Corporation (in Hunt Valley), Adams Express Company, Brown Advisory, Alex Brown, First Home Mortgage Corporation, FTI Consulting, Petroleum & Resources Corporation, Vertis, Prometric, Sylvan Learning, Laureate Education, Under Armour, Polk Audio, DAP, 180s, DeBaufre Bakeries, Wm. T. Burnett & Co, Old Mutual Financial Network, Firaxis Games (in Sparks), Sinclair Broadcast Group (in Hunt Valley), Fila USA (in Sparks), and JoS. A. Bank Clothiers (in Hampstead).
Thanks for pointing that out. Three of those F1000 companies are in the 500-550 range and just miss the cut. Despite the lack of F500 corporate headquarters specifically, there certainly is no shortage of corporate headquarters in general. When you throw in the public sector (CMS, SSI, NSA/Fort Meade, many state agencies), the port, higher education, healthcare, IT/defense contracting, tourism, and manufacturing/distribution, you can see that the region has a pretty well-rounded and relatively healthy economy despite its challenges. The size, scope, and variety of those economic drivers attests to Baltimore's true status as the second-largest principal city in the larger region and not as an outpost of DC.
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