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Old 11-23-2018, 05:28 PM
 
7,910 posts, read 9,783,834 times
Reputation: 5900

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I don't think you have to be a mass transit advocate to understand that building 2 lanes of tolled traffic at a cost that is HIGHER than creating heavy rail on the same corridor is a stupid investment that makes no sense.
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Old 11-23-2018, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Prescott, AZ
5,548 posts, read 2,864,016 times
Reputation: 2244
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
Well, maybe on that stretch, but it's not like those vehicles would disappear. They'd be pushed to other roads unable to handle the volume.
There certainly would be quite a bit of that, but there would also be those who choose not to take non-necessity trips outright due to the costs, which would reduce over all vehicle usage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Doubt these toll lanes will come close to covering their costs. There is likely still a large tax payer subsidy covering most their $5B cost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
To cover $5 billion in costs over 40 years at even $10 a car would take 500 million cars. That would mean almost 35,000 cars per day,, more than three times the usage of the I75 lanes, every day for 40 years paying $10 a piece. No way in hell that cost could be made up by tolls alone.
These are good points. Unfortunately, SRTA does not have a very open policy about their data, or else I'd be looking up returns from other Peach Pass lanes to compare / add in context.
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Old 11-23-2018, 05:42 PM
 
Location: Georgia
5,080 posts, read 4,110,943 times
Reputation: 2868
Wow. $5 BILLION, and that's just between the Cloverleaf and Spaghetti Junction.

I agree, let's spend this on transit first. And I question whether 400 north needs these lanes either until they can first extend the Red Line up there.
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Old 11-23-2018, 05:48 PM
 
Location: Prescott, AZ
5,548 posts, read 2,864,016 times
Reputation: 2244
Quote:
Originally Posted by toll_booth View Post
Wow. $5 BILLION, and that's just between the Cloverleaf and Spaghetti Junction.

I agree, let's spend this on transit first. And I question whether 400 north needs these lanes either until they can first extend the Red Line up there.
Fun fact, the combined estimate for the GA 400 HOT lanes, and the estimated MARTA HOT lane BRT route is roughly equal to the heavy rail estimates.
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Old 11-23-2018, 06:16 PM
 
1,251 posts, read 542,572 times
Reputation: 1047
I cant say whether or not the tolled lanes will bring more traffic but I will put something in perspective. The Toll Roads in Austin, Houston and DFW often save time over free alternatives. I use them pretty regularly spending as high as $80 a week...that said I dont think tolls alone are a solution to traffic. Most of the Tolled routes in Texas are just as developed as freeways.

Another crappy thing is, it's going to absolutely ruin the scenery on I-285 because if I understand right they are elevated lanes and they are two separate elevated sections on each side of the highway (one for eastbound and one for westbound) and are not reversible.

Not understanding why this state is willing to throw 5 billion away at HOT lanes but cant add even a mile of MARTA rail or implement Heavy Rail.
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Old 11-23-2018, 06:18 PM
 
28,526 posts, read 25,261,976 times
Reputation: 9817
Why haven't there been any public meetings on this? I realize GDOT can do whatever it wants but the taxpayer should at least have a forum to weigh in.
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Old 11-23-2018, 06:39 PM
 
1,251 posts, read 542,572 times
Reputation: 1047
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
Why haven't there been any public meetings on this? I realize GDOT can do whatever it wants but the taxpayer should at least have a forum to weigh in.
Probably because it would have just wasted everyone's time. They were going to do it whether we liked it or not and they probably knew most people would be against this.
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Old 11-23-2018, 06:42 PM
 
Location: Prescott, AZ
5,548 posts, read 2,864,016 times
Reputation: 2244
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
Why haven't there been any public meetings on this? I realize GDOT can do whatever it wants but the taxpayer should at least have a forum to weigh in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4Camaro View Post
Probably because it would have just wasted everyone's time. They were going to do it whether we liked it or not and they probably knew most people would be against this.
I mean, there were public meetings quite a few years ago under the "Top-End 285" project title. It examined a number of options, including light rail, bus rapid transit, and HOT lanes.

IIRC, the project concluded to suggest LRT (though as the costs here are showing, HRT probably would have been viable from a funding standpoint, and would be better to integrate with the over all network).

The state took this work, and pulled the HOT lanes component out of them, and injected it into the larger toll-lanes plan.
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Old 11-23-2018, 08:58 PM
 
Location: East Side of ATL
4,216 posts, read 5,845,847 times
Reputation: 1823
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
Why haven't there been any public meetings on this? I realize GDOT can do whatever it wants but the taxpayer should at least have a forum to weigh in.
Too early in the process, I believe.
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Old 11-23-2018, 10:03 PM
 
Location: Michigan
4 posts, read 1,880 times
Reputation: 10
Are we sure about the quoted $5B cost of the project? The I-75 expressway (NW Express corridor) cost us $834M which is about 30 miles. I doubt the similar construction (but twice the number of lanes) might take almost five times the cost. However the I-285 top end express lane project is part of the Major Mobility Investment Program (MMIP) which includes several other such projects. I'm wondering if the reported $5B tag is for the entirety of the MMIP.
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