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Old Yesterday, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,691 posts, read 16,706,545 times
Reputation: 5094

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
One of the points in toll lanes is to help pay for routes for express buses and carpools. It needs to be designed with those in mind.

I doubt there is enough demand for rail in that corridor. It would be wasted capacity. Buses could easily handle it. There are a lot more people who couldn't use rail who could benefit from the toll road. Spending billions to benefit 5% of the traffic or spending billions + a few hundred million to benefit 100% of the traffic?>
Those tolls won't cover the cost of the elevated lanes, which will be much higher than $5B once work starts, let alone buses. Operation of the buses will come from local transit agencies(and no one even mention ATL!)
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Old Yesterday, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Georgia
5,086 posts, read 4,110,943 times
Reputation: 2868
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourthwarden View Post
Bus system best option for I-285 transit, consultants tell Sandy Springs | Reporter Newspaper





There are times when I wish this site wouldn't censor swear words, because I could use a whole host of them right about now.

I-285 is turning into an even worse version of transit on GA-400. The per-mile estimates are already much higher for the HOT lanes than to just build heavy rail, and now they're talking about throwing an additional few hundred million into the pile for much lower quality BRT.

I've already put a dent in my desk where my head hits it, and more of this idiocy and I might just break through the chip-board.
I did not realize just how biased GADOT is against heavy rail was until watching how they effectively killed the extension of heavy rail into North Fulton.

North Fulton residents want heavy rail up 400. The opposition from the citizens is minimal. The opposition from the state is significantly higher.

Now they're going to try to force on them a vastly inferior BRT system that will have far fewer riders.

And they just might be pulling the same sort of **** with riders on the Perimeter.
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Old Yesterday, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,691 posts, read 16,706,545 times
Reputation: 5094
Quote:
Originally Posted by toll_booth View Post
I did not realize just how biased GADOT is against heavy rail was until watching how they effectively killed the extension of heavy rail into North Fulton.

North Fulton residents want heavy rail up 400. The opposition from the citizens is minimal. The opposition from the state is significantly higher.

Now they're going to try to force on them a vastly inferior BRT system that will have far fewer riders.

And they just might be pulling the same sort of **** with riders on the Perimeter.
The state and GDOT see that instead of paying billions for a rail line, they can spend billions on lanes (which have to be repaved, over and over, and repaving contractors are campaign donors) then get transit agencies to spend a few hundred million on buses and stations.
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Old Yesterday, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Prescott, AZ
5,551 posts, read 2,866,552 times
Reputation: 2244
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
One of the points in toll lanes is to help pay for routes for express buses and carpools. It needs to be designed with those in mind.
So, looking at SRTA's 2017 budget (Page 18 of the pdf), it looks like total revenue from 'charges for services' (which I believe covers more than just tolls) was ~$23 Mil., compared to a total expenses amount of some $158 Mil., including an apparent $26 Mil. just for operating the tolls.

Looking at MARTA's budget (Page 39 of the pdf), it looks like MARTA's total charged-services (passenger sales, parking revenue, and other operating revenue) add up to ~$154 Mil., compared to a total expenses amount of some $956 Mil..

If I'm reading the report correctly, not only is SRTA unable to fund its tolls entirely with toll revenue, but the charges-recovery ratio of 15% is actually lower than MARTA's charged-service recovery ratio of 16%.

So, a lower or equivalent initial cost, likely a higher over-all recovery ratio, a minimal to nonexistant increase in total traffic, and higher over all capacity... why isn't MARTA HRT the plan, again?

Quote:
I doubt there is enough demand for rail in that corridor. It would be wasted capacity.
You realize it would still be at the same cost, right? It's not a bad thing to get extra than strictly necessary capacity for the same cost.

Anyway, the top-end has nearly 40% more vehicles on it than GA-400 does where it parallels the Red Line. There's plenty of ridershead to use the line.

Quote:
Buses could easily handle it.

They'll also not generate the same amount of total ridership, making the combined added capacity lower than heavy rail at the same, if not higher costs.

Quote:
There are a lot more people who couldn't use rail who could benefit from the toll road. Spending billions to benefit 5% of the traffic or spending billions + a few hundred million to benefit 100% of the traffic?>

There are also a TON of people who could, especially given the expanded network effects of adding an entirely new line to the existing routes. Also, 100% of the traffic is NOT benefited, just those who choose to pay for the tolls, and even then total traffic will grow because of the added car lanes, increasing congestion off the lanes for everyone involved. Rail would not do that.



Quote:
Originally Posted by toll_booth View Post
I did not realize just how biased GADOT is against heavy rail was until watching how they effectively killed the extension of heavy rail into North Fulton.

North Fulton residents want heavy rail up 400. The opposition from the citizens is minimal. The opposition from the state is significantly higher.

Now they're going to try to force on them a vastly inferior BRT system that will have far fewer riders.

And they just might be pulling the same sort of **** with riders on the Perimeter.
It's less GDOT and more the state Legislature. GDOT can propose and say their preferences all they want, and they would love to build out rail, but if the state appropriations doesn't cover it, then it won't happen.
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Old Yesterday, 05:36 PM
 
4 posts, read 560 times
Reputation: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourthwarden View Post
So, looking at SRTA's 2017 budget (Page 18 of the pdf), it looks like total revenue from 'charges for services' (which I believe covers more than just tolls) was ~$23 Mil., compared to a total expenses amount of some $158 Mil., including an apparent $26 Mil. just for operating the tolls.

If I'm reading the report correctly, not only is SRTA unable to fund its tolls entirely with toll revenue, but the charges-recovery ratio of 15% is actually lower than MARTA's charged-service recovery ratio of 16%.
I'm not sure how much you can cherry pick the data like that. SRTA is charged with a good amount more than just operating the toll system and in 2017 the I-75 reversible lane had just opened and the I-75 NW corridor and I-85 extension were still under construction. Reading into the specifics, the report says $14.7M in revenue over 8.8M rides on the I-85 lanes alone.

Considering that the toll costs likely don't necessarily scale up with expansion of the system and the larger projects along I-285 and 400 are in the design stages, I don't think you can really come to that conclusion.

Also that 156M number for expenses also includes grant disbursements, roadway improvements, and the express busses.
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Old Yesterday, 06:35 PM
 
7,911 posts, read 9,787,076 times
Reputation: 5900
I think it's probably time to just admit Atlanta is never going to have anything even close to decent transportation options in any of our lifetimes.

If that's something that's important to you, it's better to move somewhere that already has them.

I have no doubt it's going to be our downfall. Amazon isn't the only company that wants to make sure its employees won't be stuck in gridlock every day before coming here. There will eventually be a critical mass where no companies come here anymore. Then, the ones that are here will start moving. That's part of the future I see.
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Old Yesterday, 08:16 PM
 
3,489 posts, read 8,609,178 times
Reputation: 1990
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
I think it's probably time to just admit Atlanta is never going to have anything even close to decent transportation options in any of our lifetimes.

If that's something that's important to you, it's better to move somewhere that already has them.

I have no doubt it's going to be our downfall. Amazon isn't the only company that wants to make sure its employees won't be stuck in gridlock every day before coming here. There will eventually be a critical mass where no companies come here anymore. Then, the ones that are here will start moving. That's part of the future I see.
Unless the private sector steps up and builds transit themselves. I don't know why I'm the only one that thinks that. This what happens when big government has total control.

In this country though there are only a handful of cities that have decent transportation options: NYC, Chicago, DC, Philly, Boston, SF, and Seattle and LA are getting there, maybe Denver and Dallas. You're better off moving to Tokyo or another foreign city.
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Old Yesterday, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Georgia
5,086 posts, read 4,110,943 times
Reputation: 2868
Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAandATL View Post
Unless the private sector steps up and builds transit themselves. I don't know why I'm the only one that thinks that. This what happens when big government has total control.
You mean, when rural Georgia legislators won't support transit in the number one economic generator in the state.

Quote:
In this country though there are only a handful of cities that have decent transportation options: NYC, Chicago, DC, Philly, Boston, SF, and Seattle and LA are getting there, maybe Denver and Dallas. You're better off moving to Tokyo or another foreign city.
A big issue is all the sprawl, and that's not going to change any time soon. Same with the complete lack of urgency for even the slightest bit of commuter rail.
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Old Yesterday, 08:29 PM
 
7,911 posts, read 9,787,076 times
Reputation: 5900
Another option is to live in and work in a city that may not have decent transportation options, but isn't so congested that it's as big of an issue.
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Old Yesterday, 09:29 PM
 
4,501 posts, read 2,981,294 times
Reputation: 2949
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
Another option is to live in and work in a city that may not have decent transportation options, but isn't so congested that it's as big of an issue.
Every time I go home to Memphis, I think about this. The metro area is 1.3 million people, so it's not exactly small. Less density, just as sprawled. But I am never stuck in traffic while I'm there, and they have pretty much zero transit. Some busses, but that's about it. They just have so many arterial roads that there are always numerous options to get where you are going, north-south and east-west. Helps that the city was built mostly as a grid, though.
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