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Old 11-23-2018, 03:16 PM
 
28,523 posts, read 25,261,976 times
Reputation: 9817

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Here is a woman who is calling out the GDOT on building more lanes on 285.

I can't really disagree. More lanes usually just means more traffic.

Quote:
New toll lanes to be built along I-285 could hurt some homeowners, businesses and a beloved recreation center in Dunwoody’s Georgetown neighborhood, according to a City Council member. But nobody yet knows the details of the Georgia Department of Transportation’s “I-285 Top End Express Lanes” project, creating an uncertainty that is frustrating city officials.

“This is my most hated project ever,” City Councilmember Lynn Deutsch said in an interview. She has been on the council for seven years and her district includes Georgetown.

“There’s potential for a real negative impact on Georgetown … but we don’t know,” she said.

“The attitude I hear from talking to others is this is a done deal. But I don’t think it has to be,” Deutsch said. “There have been no public meetings, this is costing billions of dollars, and at the end of the day, what does any taxpayer get for it and, specifically, what if any benefits are there to my city’s residents?”

More...https://www.reporternewspapers.net/2...ouncil-member/
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Old 11-23-2018, 03:26 PM
 
7,904 posts, read 9,783,834 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
The I-285 Top End Express Lanes project, estimated to cost close to $5 billion, focuses on adding two new elevated, barrier-separated express lanes in both directions on I-285, alongside regular travel lanes.
For 5 BILLION dollars, this is an absolutely ludicrous project.

Even at $250 million per mile, that price tag will buy you 20 miles of heavy rail. That's enough to cover the entire top end perimeter....with more than a billion dollars left over. How does building two lanes of traffic cost more than heavy rail? You could connect Doraville and Sandy Springs or Medical Center MARTA stations to a new station at The Battery for less.

God, this state is full of morons.
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Old 11-23-2018, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA (Sandy Springs)
4,010 posts, read 2,481,258 times
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Yes it's expensive but at least they are new lanes. That's better than just taking one of the existing lanes and converting it to toll like they did on 85.
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Old 11-23-2018, 03:30 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA (Sandy Springs)
4,010 posts, read 2,481,258 times
Reputation: 3070
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
Even at $250 million per mile, that price tag will buy you 20 miles of heavy rail.
Assuming the state were inclined to fund heavy rail. They never have and I doubt that will change in the near term, though I hope I'm wrong.
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Old 11-23-2018, 03:56 PM
 
1,249 posts, read 542,572 times
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I'm speechless.
This project will literally cost 5 times the amount of the Bay Bridge in San Francisco.
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Old 11-23-2018, 04:27 PM
 
10,130 posts, read 7,133,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atltechdude View Post
Yes it's expensive but at least they are new lanes. That's better than just taking one of the existing lanes and converting it to toll like they did on 85.
Not really. More lanes will just bring more traffic. If they had simply done congestion tolling on the existing lanes they would be able to keep traffic moving without the added expense.

For comparison, this project costs 50 times more than the downtown streetcar! Or about double the price of the entire MoreMARTA project list which includes Beltline rail, Clifton Cooridor, Cambelton Rd LRT, bus routes, and station improvements!

Keep on widening highways is too expensive even if it did "work".
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Old 11-23-2018, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Prescott, AZ
5,547 posts, read 2,864,016 times
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The only possible up side is that they're tolled, and so will be able to earn back their costs while metering traffic to (hopefully) maintain flow. This will, at least, be usable for eXpress services.

That said, yes it'll result in more net traffic. Yes the total cost could fund a top-end heavy rail line. Yes heavy rail would have more theoretical throughput capacity.

Ideally we would have both in place, but alas I fear the state legislature will wipe its hands and claim victory for mobility once only the lanes are done, while GDOT winces since they know better, the NIMBYs clutch their pearls at the growing metro, and the transit activists bang their heads into the wall. Repeatedly.
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Old 11-23-2018, 05:16 PM
 
4,488 posts, read 2,979,015 times
Reputation: 2944
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
For 5 BILLION dollars, this is an absolutely ludicrous project.

Even at $250 million per mile, that price tag will buy you 20 miles of heavy rail. That's enough to cover the entire top end perimeter....with more than a billion dollars left over. How does building two lanes of traffic cost more than heavy rail? You could connect Doraville and Sandy Springs or Medical Center MARTA stations to a new station at The Battery for less.

God, this state is full of morons.
Seriously. If they have five billion dollars to spend up there, put it towards a top end rail line and a NW rail line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4Camaro View Post
I'm speechless.
This project will literally cost 5 times the amount of the Bay Bridge in San Francisco.
Uh, that's not true. You're looking at the original estimate from the mid 90s. The final bridge cost over $6 billion for all sorts of ungodly reasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Not really. More lanes will just bring more traffic. If they had simply done congestion tolling on the existing lanes they would be able to keep traffic moving without the added expense.
Well, maybe on that stretch, but it's not like those vehicles would disappear. They'd be pushed to other roads unable to handle the volume.

Quote:
For comparison, this project costs 50 times more than the downtown streetcar!
True, but the top end 285 also currently serves about 250 times the number of people daily as the Streetcar does. Still...$5 billion is ludicrous sum for a couple of lanes.

Quote:
Or about double the price of the entire MoreMARTA project list which includes Beltline rail, Clifton Cooridor, Cambelton Rd LRT, bus routes, and station improvements!
Somewhat rue. I have high doubts that all these projects would actually be completed for that cost, but your point is taken.
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Old 11-23-2018, 05:19 PM
 
10,130 posts, read 7,133,283 times
Reputation: 3129
Doubt these toll lanes will come close to covering their costs. There is likely still a large tax payer subsidy covering most their $5B cost.
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Old 11-23-2018, 05:26 PM
 
4,488 posts, read 2,979,015 times
Reputation: 2944
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Doubt these toll lanes will come close to covering their costs. There is likely still a large tax payer subsidy covering most their $5B cost.
To cover $5 billion in costs over 40 years at even $10 a car would take 500 million cars. That would mean almost 35,000 cars per day,, more than three times the usage of the I75 lanes, every day for 40 years paying $10 a piece. No way in hell that cost could be made up by tolls alone.
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