Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Georgia is in fact a home rule state. So if certain areas wanted to incorporate and/or be annexed into a city, there's nothing stopping them from doing so.
Thing is, the reality is many people in GA prefer having less government so that they don't have to pay nearly as much in taxes and are able to maintain the pastoral/rural feel of the environment around them. Incorporation into a city with extensive municipal infrastructure leaves them open to higher density/urban development they may not want to be around).
It really boils down to a cultural issue.
This is why the township/"city light" model would work very well here.
It's almost totally location that gives Cobb the win. If Gwinnett were shifted a little south and west....boundaries more like northern half of Dekalb and the western half of Gwinnett it would be a more even comparison.
The closer-in location in the metro area and closer location to the City of Atlanta has been one of the things that many posters have cited in their preference for Cobb over Gwinnett.
Cobb's closer-in location is the reason why the I-285 Perimeter runs through part of the southeastern portion of the county where Cumberland Mall is located (and was attracted to the major I-75/I-285 Cobb Cloverleaf junction) and attracted the high-rise business developments which eventually attracted SunTrust Park and the popular adjoining "The Battery" mixed-use development.
The county's closer-in location along with the natural landmarks (like Kennesaw Mountain, Wilkerson/Vinings Mountain and the other low mountain/high foothill peaks, etc) appears to be what has attracted much of the kinds of development that has helped to make Cobb more of a preferred suburban/outer-urban county than Gwinnett amongst the posters on this thread.
This is why the township/"city light" model would work very well here.
I like it.
Well not necessarily.
Stockbridge/Eagles Landing is a perfect example of why that model is also flawed.
Peachtree Corners is an extreme case/anomaly in that it's a wealthy enclave with a ton of high-paying tech jobs and inside a county that has a proven track record of providing top-notch services. Thus, they can get away with operating a bare-minimum municipal government that doesn't require their residents pay high taxes.
Georgia is in fact a home rule state. So if certain areas wanted to incorporate and/or be annexed into a city, there's nothing stopping them from doing so.
Thing is, the reality is many people in GA prefer having less government so that they don't have to pay nearly as much in taxes and are able to maintain the pastoral/rural feel of the environment around them. Incorporation into a city with extensive municipal infrastructure leaves them open to higher density/urban development they may not want to be around.
It really boils down to a cultural issue.
Those are really good points.
Some of the main issues that motivated the backers of cityhood for Peachtree Corners in Gwinnett and Sandy Springs in North Fulton were a desire to have much more immediate local control over zoning and code enforcement (two items that larger county governments might not necessarily always have the resources to pay as close attention to as many local residents might prefer), and a desire to prevent their areas from being annexed by neighboring incorporated municipalities.
Peachtree Corners wanted to prevent the neighboring City of Norcross from annexing valuable commercial property in the 30092 zip code part of then-unincorporated Gwinnett County.
Sandy Springs (which is an area that traditionally has been electorally dominated by conservative white Republican voters) had what most likely was an irrational fear of being annexed by the municipal government of the neighboring black and progressive-dominated City of Atlanta.
Meanwhile, a largely very affluent area like East Cobb continues to remain unincorporated because of a desire by many property owners to pay lower tax rates, as well as because of some limited degree of concern that a potential future "City of East Cobb" might not necessarily have as much revenue-generating commercial property as might be desired.
Stockbridge/Eagles Landing is a perfect example of why that model is also flawed.
Peachtree Corners is an extreme case/anomaly in that it's a wealthy enclave with a ton of high-paying tech jobs and inside a county that has a proven track record of providing top-notch services. Thus, they can get away with operating a bare-minimum municipal government that doesn't require their residents pay high taxes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll
Those are really good points.
Some of the main issues that motivated the backers of cityhood for Peachtree Corners in Gwinnett and Sandy Springs in North Fulton were a desire to have much more immediate local control over zoning and code enforcement (two items that larger county governments might not necessarily always have the resources to pay as close attention to as many local residents might prefer), and a desire to prevent their areas from being annexed by neighboring incorporated municipalities.
Peachtree Corners wanted to prevent the neighboring City of Norcross from annexing valuable commercial property in the 30092 zip code part of then-unincorporated Gwinnett County.
Sandy Springs (which is an area that traditionally has been electorally dominated by conservative white Republican voters) had what most likely was an irrational fear of being annexed by the municipal government of the neighboring black and progressive-dominated City of Atlanta.
Meanwhile, a largely very affluent area like East Cobb continues to remain unincorporated because of a desire by many property owners to pay lower tax rates, as well as because of some limited degree of concern that a potential future "City of East Cobb" might not necessarily have as much revenue-generating commercial property as might be desired.
I totally disagree that the township/"city-light" model would not work well here. The counter-examples given are missing the point entirely.
I could write a lot more, but I will outline in a nutshell:
1. The overall purpose of a township would be to regulate zoning, codes, and development.
2. As stated well above and well back, other services provided by a municipality would be optional or "township choice".
3. I often tout East Cobb on here. However, East Cobb is an anomaly--East Cobb (and a few other areas) are the way they are because they got lucky with their less regulated environment. To be honest, with a few minor historical tweaks, East Cobb could've easily have been much worse. And still, East Cobb has very few parks for its extremely large population (a shame). At least we can thank the gods that the tone was set with the development of the Atlanta Country Club and Indian Hills. Parkview-Brookwood is also another "lucky" area (even though parts are still in incorporated Lilburn/Snellville).
4. To see examples of how unincorporated areas would've benefited from township status:
a. Unincorporated South Cobb.
b. Canton Road Corridor of western East Cobb.
c. Unincorporated West Gwinnett
d. Unincorporated Southwest DeKalb
f. Roswell Road Corridor before Sandy Springs incorporation
g. Non-Union Grove Henry County
h. Unincorporated Clayton County
i. Old National Highway Corridor
j. Bankhead Highway Corridor in the Western Suburbs
k. Southeast Paulding County.
And citidata,
Coweta County is great. I adore Coweta County. However, I would be mildly concerned that the heavy development in all of the unincorporated areas could go the way of Henry County and West Gwinnett. Coweta does not yet have the cachet of North Fulton, East Cobb, South Forsyth to keep unincorporated development a certain quality...nor does Coweta have the stringent development regulations of Fayette.
Last edited by aries4118; 01-01-2019 at 12:55 PM..
I totally disagree that the township/"city-light" model would not work well here. The counter-examples given are missing the point entirely.
I could write a lot more, but I will outline in a nutshell:
1. The overall purpose of a township would be to regulate zoning, codes, and development.
2. As stated well above and well back, other services provided by a municipality would be optional or "township choice".
3. I often tout East Cobb on here. However, East Cobb is an anomaly--East Cobb (and a few other areas) are the way they are because they got lucky with their less regulated environment. To be honest, with a few minor historical tweaks, East Cobb could've easily have been much worse. Thank gods the tone was set with the development of the Atlanta Country Club and Indian Hills. Parkview-Brookwood is also another "lucky" area (even though parts are still in incorporated Lilburn/Snellville).
4. To see examples of how unincorporated areas would've benefited from township status:
a. Unincorporated South Cobb County
b. Canton Road Corridor of western East Cobb.
c. Unincorporated West Gwinnett
d. Unincorporated Southwest DeKalb
f. Roswell Road Corridor before Sandy Springs incorporation
g. Non-Union Grove Henry County
h. Unincorporated Clayton County
i. Old National Highway Corridor
j. Bankhead Highway Corridor in the Western Suburbs
k. Southeast Paulding County.
And citidata,
Coweta County is great. I adore Coweta County. However, I would be mildly concerned that the heavy development in all of the unincorporated areas could go the way of Henry County and West Gwinnett. Coweta does not yet have the cachet of North Fulton, East Cobb, South Forsyth to keep unincorporated development a certain quality...nor does Coweta have the stringent development regulations of Fayette.
I disagree somewhat with your concerns about Coweta County, for a couple reasons.
1. It's a good thing that Coweta's developmemt regulations aren't as stringent as Fayette. Otherwise, it would be facing a demographic crisis as bad as Fayette County due to the severely limited and aging housing supply. Coweta County has arguably the best starter home market in Atlanta/Georgia (and likely one of the best in the country) and that's helping it to replenish its younger/millennial population at a better pace than Fayette County.
That being said, outside the areas under grandfathered zoning for the Shenandoah Community and Newnan proper, unincorporated Coweta County actually does have fairly strict development requirements, definitely more strict than Henry County. All subdivisions have to be built on 1 acre lots at minimum while apartments are virtually non-existent (as far as I'm aware, that's not the case in Henry County). The only way developers can get around that is by annexing into Newnan.
2. The city of Newnan is actually doing the exact opposite of what the city of Stockbridge has done. It understands that in order to attract/keep its affluent residents in Summergrove as well as support its lower income/working class residents in historic Newnan, it has to offer services that are second to none to justify higher city taxes That's why it has its own police/fire/dems departments, public utilities and recreation department. It's actually a privilege to be annexed into the city of Newnan and that's why its residents are not fighting to secede from it.
3. While traffic on the I-85 corridor may slowly worsen as the moderate to explosive growth in Coweta County continues, there are some differences that will prevent it from ever getting as bad as I-75 in Henry County. For starters, I-85 south is not a major vacation/industrial route, as there are no ports or "major" cities/tourist traps along the interstate once you leave Atlanta. Two, GDOT was good in their foresight to widen I-85 to 4 lanes in each direction, in anticipation of future growth. Until the Peach Pass lanes were built, I-75 was still 3 lanes through Henry County. If anything, I-85 south is still significantly undercapacity (only 70,000 VPD), especially once you get south of Fairburn.
4. Whether we want to acknowledge the elephant in the room or not, racial makeup is still a factor people consider with respect to measuring quality of life. Coweta County is still one of the few major counties in Atlanta in which a huge share of the population is white, and this isn't projected to change much between now and 2040. In America, the reality is areas where the vast majority of the population is non-minority are less likely to be passed over for amenities such as desirable retailers or higher quality infrastructure. Not to mention individuals who are shopping for homes to invest in long term perceive safety/school quality to be higher in areas with a lower population of minorities (right or wrong).
5. Coweta County has done a better job than Henry County at establishing a more advanced healthcare ecosystem by attracting destination facilities such as the Emcompass Health Rehab Hospital and the Cancer Treatment Center, which attracts a higher skilled and higher educated populace to the area for the research and complicated medical procedures that occur inside these facilities. The main thing preventing Coweta County's healthcare ecosystem from prospering even more (CTCA owns 75 acres of land for future development, while a behaviorial health facility has expressed strong interest in opening a place in Newnan) is the ridiculous CON law, which hopefully will be repealed in the next legislative session.
That said, I do acknowledge Coweta County has some issues that hold it back:
1. Because it's a relatively slower growth county, natives here have been more successful in blocking necessary developments that would help to encourage more quality growth and further improve the QOL. For example, a medical doctor submitted a rezoning request wanted to build a brand new state of the art office on Poplar Road nesr the new hospital (the immediate area right now is stillrural). Yet, residents.nearby who have been for several generations expressed a bunch of NIMBY concerns at the rezoning meeting and the request was denied.
2. Its location is a major hindrance. Although Newnan is no further away from downtown than highly sought-after areas like Cumming or Woodstock, people *perceive* it to be far away from just about all of the sought-after destinations (theme parks, outlet malls, lakes, mountains corporate jobs, etc.) in Metro Atlanta except Hartsifield-Jackson. Unless one is a pilot for Delta or some other employee at the airport, most people relocating to the region write off Newnan/Coweta County because the opportunity cost of living so far from "everything" outweighs the otherwise high quality of life it has.
That said, if Newnan/Coweta County can become more aggressive in courting companies looking to expand/relocate that create high-paying jobs (by going out to let the world know it exists) and establish its own cluster of corporate employment competitive with communities on the north side, while simultaneously maintaining the high quality of life it has, I see it more going the way of north side counties like Forsyth County or Cherokee County.
Last edited by citidata18; 01-01-2019 at 02:36 PM..
I totally disagree that the township/"city-light" model would not work well here. The counter-examples given are missing the point entirely.
4. To see examples of how unincorporated areas would've benefited from township status:
c. Unincorporated West Gwinnett
Where? It seems most of Peachtree Pkwy and Peachtree Industrial are well covered by cities.
Looking at this map, I didn't realize how much of Gwinnett was unincorporated. When the cities and county had that big blow up a few years back, I figured more of the county was covered.
East Cobb is Suburban Sunbelt Perfection--set among lush, forested Appalachian foothills.
Thanks for providing the videos and URL’s to street view. Don’t get me wrong, I agree the area is beautiful particularly with the vistas from the foothills (one of the many reasons I enjoy hiking).
I just wish there were more established towns (meaning larger street grids, not how old people have lived somewhere) instead of meandering culdesacs and subdivisions. Even historic Roswell, Decatur, and Marietta Square are quaint compared with any random town in the Midwest, northeast, or seaport towns. I’d just love if the neighborhoods and roads fed into more of a small city that’s built to accent the surrounding topography like the downtown areas of Greenville, Boulder, Spokane, or Asheville. It’s one of the main reasons why I’m hoping Marietta continues to develop around and build out the grid around their square. Obviously it’s okay to have quiet secluded homes. I just think we should be providing a much better built out environment for everyone with a little more foresight instead of the strip malls, considering our booming population. Like what if instead of a culdesac or lone apartment complex we had a town square on top of one of those hilltops. Or town square with one of those rolling creeks coming through to feed the chattahoochee where people would congregate- eg Sope Creek (I know it’s a cultural/NPS site- just a nice place for reference).
This goes for pretty much all development across the US, not just Cobb.
Last edited by Street Advocate; 01-01-2019 at 02:18 PM..
Where? It seems most of Peachtree Pkwy and Peachtree Industrial are well covered by cities.
Looking at this map, I didn't realize how much of Gwinnett was unincorporated. When the cities and counties had that big blow up a few years back, I figured more of the county was covered.
I may have mis-named.
By West Gwinnett, I meant the areas south of Norcross, west of Lilburn, north of Lilburn, south of Duluth/BL, and between Lilburn and Lawrenceville.
By West Gwinnett, I meant the areas south of Norcross, west of Lilburn, north of Lilburn, south of Duluth/BL, and between Lilburn and Lawrenceville.
Would Southwest Gwinnett be a better description?
Since Gwinnett is somewhat diamond shaped instead of more of a square on a flat N/S and E/W axis, it is harder to quantify these things. 85 running diagonally thru it compounds this as well.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
