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Old Yesterday, 04:35 PM
7,867 posts, read 9,749,159 times
Reputation: 5851


HRT. It costs more, sure, but for $100 billion, we could get 400 miles of it, so....
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Old Yesterday, 04:49 PM
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
7,826 posts, read 11,872,963 times
Reputation: 5491
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
Because Africa is the gold standard for transportation. Pardon me if I'd rather draw transit inspiration from Europe and Japan.
Buses are heavily used in Europe and Japan, as well all other big cities across Africa, Asia, and the Americas. I too prefer rail as the backbone of a mass transit system, but rail can't go everywhere or drop people off at their door step like a bus can. If you really analyze it, the transit systems in New York or Tokyo or any number of other cities would fall apart if there were no buses.

NYC for example has a ridership of 8.8 million for the subway each day, but also 3 million for buses. While you could get around most of Manhattan ok without using a bus, the same is not true for Queens, Brooklyn, or the Bronx.

I don't think you were trying to imply something about not using Africa as an example (at least I hope you weren't), but they have plenty of modern cities that are good parallels for us to learn from. Despite what a lot of people think it isn't all mud huts and shantytowns in Africa. In fact, many cities are experiencing booms very similar to what Atlanta has gone through in the last century and have the exact same challenges when it comes to traffic. Capetown and Lagos have used BRT to address their traffic woes and it seems to be working, which I guess what that poster was referring to.

It may seem nonsensical, but I think mega expansion of bus service (along with subway, streetcars, and commuter rail) is exactly what we need. One solution isn't going to fix all of the problems we have, especially OTP.
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Old Yesterday, 04:59 PM
Location: Decatur, GA
4,999 posts, read 3,806,681 times
Reputation: 2537
CRT costs between $5M and $40M per mile.
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Old Yesterday, 05:00 PM
30 posts, read 7,414 times
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I agree 100%
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Old Yesterday, 05:13 PM
30 posts, read 7,414 times
Reputation: 22
We need a HRT from 75/575 into the city, the red line extended to Alpharetta, the blue line extended to Stonecrest
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Old Yesterday, 05:19 PM
Location: Decatur, GA
4,999 posts, read 3,806,681 times
Reputation: 2537
Blue line west to at least Six Flags, not even for Six Flags, but as a P&R. Thornton road would be even better.
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Old Yesterday, 05:35 PM
7,867 posts, read 9,749,159 times
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Yeah, I will agree that buses would be fine for last mile. But let's not out the carriage before the horse. Better to build a comprehensive rail network, get people used to using it, and then flesh it out with a complementary bus network. You know if we do it in reverse rail will never come.
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Old Yesterday, 05:50 PM
Location: Vinings
6,077 posts, read 3,082,624 times
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Lots of different possibilities and combos of course, but I think the best thing to do with $100 billion would be to triple or quadruple (whatever the money allows) the total trackage and station count of the MARTA heavy rail system all throughout its 5 intended counties (both thru extensions and finally building the various planned spur lines), and then also increase train frequencies all the time to be more like Chicago's L, and have it operate 24/7. So we'd have over 100 total MARTA stations, with many in Gwinnett and Cobb and North and South Fulton and Clayton and OTP DeKalb and throughout ITP. And an impressive heavy rail system map, for all the other southern metros to envy. Better than DC's, even.

And then once that's built out, the existing count of buses would feel like more of them, and more routes especially east-west routes on the northside, and could end up with better frequencies because they'd no longer be pulling all the weight of serving all these trunks that would now be served by train lines.

Like there'd still be a bus on Satellite Blvd, but it would no longer have to run down to Doraville. It could just drop off at Gwinnett Place MARTA station and the next station, and therefore could be half the route length, and therefore double the frequency. Or whatever. And also more ideally suited for a bus's rider capacity.

I mean, it's what MARTA was envisioned and intended to be. Build that. A sort of hybrid system that sort of functions like urban subway but also sort of functions like suburban commuter rail. A little of both all in one system. In hub/spoke layout.

Also, put a large portion of it into the less glamorous side, operational and maintenance side of things. No more of those 'slow zones', all newer and better trains, smoother and quieter ride, etc etc.

And if we were starting from scratch, that would be a different story entirely. Heavy rail would not be the best choice to spend the money. But since we already have that system, if this metro was given $100 billion for transit to do whatever with, expand that dang stub of a system. We've got already built stations like North Avenue that could be absolutely packed with commuters like a busy northern city, if the trains on that line were running up to Duluth and Marietta and etc.
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Old Yesterday, 06:05 PM
Location: 30080
2,137 posts, read 3,435,737 times
Reputation: 1490
Originally Posted by LTCM View Post
Ridership peaked what, 15 years ago? Has funding, service area, and region population not increased since that time?

Why throw more good money at something that has no metric which shows improvement?

Isn't it obvious WHY this is? The damn thing doesn't go anywhere. It doesn't serve places that would give the majority of us a REASON to ride it. If I live in Smyrna what use is Marta to me? If there were a stop at Cumberland, that would be different. And I mean a rail stop, not a bus that is going to take nearly an hour to get from Cumberland to Arts Center Station. But it makes no sense for the majority to drive TO a marta station to ride it when in most cases it requires driving nearly to your destination.
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Old Yesterday, 07:02 PM
Location: Prepperland
13,311 posts, read 9,425,960 times
Reputation: 9240
You know there was no such thing as a conspiracy to eliminate America’s once premier electric traction rail network (urban and interurban). How could there be a collusion between special interests and corrupt politicians to saddle Americans like beasts of burden, enriching all the “right” people.

We’re not stupid!

We weren’t fooled into keeping an ‘old fashioned’ mode of transportation, despite it costing 20 times less in fuel compared to pneumatic tire on pavement (20:1 advantage due to rolling resistance). Americans aren’t bamboozled by mere budgetary constraints, nor are they against paving over more and more land so that we can have glorious superhighway convenience, door to door.

Who cares that one track of rail has the equivalent capacity of 9 lanes of superhighway? Or that a 4 track urban subway, like NYC, is the equivalent of 36 lanes of superhighway? And let’s not forget safety issues. We Americans are outraged at a mere hundred deaths per year by ‘police brutality’ while ignoring 40,100 (2017) annual deaths from traffic incidents. In contrast, the tally of passenger deaths via frightful rail travel is often zero in most years.

Americans do not want a scalable, frugal, efficient, non-polluting, fast, safe and comfortable way to travel in and through our now decaying inner cities, which lack parking space necessary for our national ritual of automobile travel. We don’t want to be free of petroleum imports, nor foreign entanglements necessary to maintain our lifeline of fuel. We prefer sacrificing our precious children and resources in endless unWars.

Americans are too smart to believe in any conspiracy to make them perpetual servants of the automobile / petroleum / pavement hegemony and all their collaborators, cohorts, and minions. That’s almost as bad as believing in a conspiracy to keep housing costs high, while driving more and more people into the streets, homeless.
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