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Old 01-22-2019, 01:16 PM
 
28,525 posts, read 25,261,976 times
Reputation: 9817

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Here are some folks who say the MB Football Stadium should not have been given tax exempt status for 30 years.

They claim that if the stadium was paying property taxes like the rest of us we'd have another $700 million in the coffers.

Maybe some of that could be used for transit and walkability/bikability improvements.

Quote:
Over the life of a 30-year agreement the Falcons have to use the stadium, it might generate more than $700 million in property taxes, according to estimates by attorney Wayne Kendall, who is representing the residents who filed the suit. His estimate is based on the $1.5-billion stadium paying current property tax rates for Fulton County, Atlanta and the Atlanta Public Schools across three decades.

“I just believe the public is getting screwed on the deal,” Kendall said. “The Falcons aren’t paying the $26 million they should be paying, and everyone else will have to make up the difference.”

More....https://www.ajc.com/news/local-govt-...UgnXOk9Lf8XeJ/
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Old 01-22-2019, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,684 posts, read 16,700,775 times
Reputation: 5094
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
Here are some folks who say the MB Football Stadium should not have been given tax exempt status for 30 years.

They claim that if the stadium was paying property taxes like the rest of us we'd have another $700 million in the coffers.

Maybe some of that could be used for transit and walkability/bikability improvements.
Yes they should, Atlanta Falcons and United are for-profit teams.
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Old 01-22-2019, 02:47 PM
 
1,433 posts, read 2,531,856 times
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I can understand a hotel getting an exemption for a couple years. Or an office building. They take time to ramp up. Once they become profitable, they claw back on that money owed. It is deferred. Not a handout. Sadly though, that money would be squandered regardless.
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Old 01-22-2019, 03:15 PM
 
1,404 posts, read 1,603,040 times
Reputation: 826
The stadium is owned by the state of Georgia through the Georgia World Congress Center Authority. Good luck with that...
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Old 01-22-2019, 03:43 PM
 
5,794 posts, read 5,145,536 times
Reputation: 3870
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
Here are some folks who say the MB Football Stadium should not have been given tax exempt status for 30 years.

They claim that if the stadium was paying property taxes like the rest of us we'd have another $700 million in the coffers.

Maybe some of that could be used for transit and walkability/bikability improvements.
Quote:
Over the life of a 30-year agreement the Falcons have to use the stadium, it might generate more than $700 million in property taxes, according to estimates by attorney Wayne Kendall, who is representing the residents who filed the suit. His estimate is based on the $1.5-billion stadium paying current property tax rates for Fulton County, Atlanta and the Atlanta Public Schools across three decades.

“I just believe the public is getting screwed on the deal,” Kendall said. “The Falcons aren’t paying the $26 million they should be paying, and everyone else will have to make up the difference.”

More....https://www.ajc.com/news/local-govt-...UgnXOk9Lf8XeJ/
I agree that it basically is not fair that Mercedes-Benz Stadium is exempted from paying property taxes for 30 years.

But... Looking at the bigger picture, a good question to ask is: "How much will Mercedes-Benz Stadium, and its status as being the home field of both an NFL team (Falcons) and a competitive MLS team (the 2018 MLS Champion Atlanta United), help to bring in to the local economy over the 30 years that it does not pay property taxes?"

Just the Super Bowl alone is projected to bring in about $400 million to Atlanta's economy.

And that's not counting all of the other revenue-generating major sporting events (including the Chick-Fil-A Kickoff Showcase, the SEC Championship Game, the Chick-Fil-A Peach Bowl, the College Football National Semifinal, the College Football National Championship Game, the 2020 NCAA Men's Basketball Final Four, Falcons home games, United home games, etc), large corporate meetings, major conventions and major corporate relocations that MB Stadium helps attract to the area that has a positive impact on Atlanta's economy.

Let's say that in most years, a major events facility like MB Stadium generates about $1 billion in activity for Atlanta's economy each year... That's about $30 BILLION in economic activity that a facility like MB Stadium is helping to generate over the 30 years that it will be exempt from paying in about $700 million in property taxes.

Now let's say that MB Stadium's impact on Atlanta's economy is grossly overestimated/overstated and that MB Stadium only generates half of that earlier number (basically $0.5 billion or $500 million) yearly...

Even with MB Stadium only generating about $500 million/yearly in economic activity, that still adds up to about $15 billion in activity that MB Stadium is generating for Atlanta's economy with all of the major sporting events, corporate meetings, conventions, corporate relocations, etc, that the stadium helps to attract to Atlanta.

Now, is it fair to taxpayers that a property like MB Stadium does not have to pay property taxes for 30 years while virtually everyone else in Fulton County does? Definitely not.

But there does seem to be an argument to be made that trading off $700 million in property tax payments over 30 years in exchange for at least $15 billion, and maybe $20-30 billion in economic activity over 30 years is a good deal for the city as a whole.

MB Stadium may not pay property taxes every year... But there is an argument to be made that the presence of a facility like MB Stadium in Atlanta enables many other facilities and properties in Fulton County (like Downtown/Midtown/Buckhead hotels, AirBnB/VRBO rentals, residential properties, commercial properties, etc.) to pay property and sales taxes that they potentially might not be able to pay if a facility like MB Stadium did not exist and was not attracting lots of visitors and newcomers to the city on an annual basis.

I can personally attest to the positive economic effects that a facility like MB Stadium has on the city.

I have a close friend who is like a brother to me who owns a limousine company and at least one AirBnB who makes a fairly good living and earns revenue when major sporting events, corporate meetings, major conventions, etc., come to the city. He does fairly well financially and is able to support himself and his elementary school-aged daughter and makes enough to make frequent trips to see his extended family in states like Maryland and California.

I also have other friends and family who work at hotels, run hotels, drive for Uber and Lyft and other limousine/hired car companies who are able to support themselves fairly well off of Atlanta's event/convention business... Friends and family who likely would not be able to support themselves otherwise if Atlanta were not a major event and convention hub.

It is not fair that one high-profile member of the community (in this case, MB Stadium) does not have to pay property taxes for 30 years while almost everyone else does.

But on the other hand, these numbers (dollar figures) do not exist in a vacuum and they do not just exist on paper. These numbers/dollar figures have a wide-ranging positive impact on the community as a whole.

That roughly $15-30 billion that a facility like MB Stadium will generate throughout Atlanta's economy over the 30 years that it is exempt from paying property taxes will resonate through the Atlanta community.

MB Stadium may not be paying $700 million in property taxes over 30 years, but there is an argument to be made that the stadium's high-profile presence will enable the community as a whole to pay many times that amount in property and sales taxes over that 30-year period.
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Old 01-22-2019, 03:55 PM
 
7,908 posts, read 9,783,834 times
Reputation: 5900
Exempt for 30 years?

So.... it's pretty much exempt for its entire life.

Because we all know, it will be imploded long before 30 years is up.
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Old 01-22-2019, 03:57 PM
 
2,445 posts, read 1,170,391 times
Reputation: 1890
Quote:
Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll View Post
I agree that it basically is not fair that Mercedes-Benz Stadium is exempted from paying property taxes for 30 years.

But... Looking at the bigger picture, a good question to ask is: "How much will Mercedes-Benz Stadium, and its status as being the home field of both an NFL team (Falcons) and a competitive MLS team (the 2018 MLS Champion Atlanta United), help to bring in to the local economy over the 30 years that it does not pay property taxes?"

Just the Super Bowl alone is projected to bring in about $400 million to Atlanta's economy.

And that's not counting all of the other revenue-generating major sporting events (including the Chick-Fil-A Kickoff Showcase, the SEC Championship Game, the Chick-Fil-A Peach Bowl, the College Football National Semifinal, the College Football National Championship Game, the 2020 NCAA Men's Basketball Final Four, Falcons home games, United home games, etc), large corporate meetings, major conventions and major corporate relocations that MB Stadium helps attract to the area that has a positive impact on Atlanta's economy.

Let's say that in most years, a major events facility like MB Stadium generates about $1 billion in activity for Atlanta's economy each year... That's about $30 BILLION in economic activity that a facility like MB Stadium is helping to generate over the 30 years that it will be exempt from paying in about $700 million in property taxes.

Now let's say that MB Stadium's impact on Atlanta's economy is grossly overestimated/overstated and that MB Stadium only generates half of that earlier number (basically $0.5 billion or $500 million) yearly...

Even with MB Stadium only generating about $500 million/yearly in economic activity, that still adds up to about $15 billion in activity that MB Stadium is generating for Atlanta's economy with all of the major sporting events, corporate meetings, conventions, corporate relocations, etc, that the stadium helps to attract to Atlanta.

Now, is it fair to taxpayers that a property like MB Stadium does not have to pay property taxes for 30 years while virtually everyone else in Fulton County does? Definitely not.

But there does seem to be an argument to be made that trading off $700 million in property tax payments over 30 years in exchange for at least $15 billion, and maybe $20-30 billion in economic activity over 30 years is a good deal for the city as a whole.

MB Stadium may not pay property taxes every year... But there is an argument to be made that the presence of a facility like MB Stadium in Atlanta enables many other facilities and properties in Fulton County (like Downtown/Midtown/Buckhead hotels, AirBnB/VRBO rentals, residential properties, commercial properties, etc.) to pay property and sales taxes that they potentially might not be able to pay if a facility like MB Stadium did not exist and was not attracting lots of visitors and newcomers to the city on an annual basis.

I can personally attest to the positive economic effects that a facility like MB Stadium has on the city.

I have a close friend who is like a brother to me who owns a limousine company and at least one AirBnB who makes a fairly good living and earns revenue when major sporting events, corporate meetings, major conventions, etc., come to the city. He does fairly well financially and is able to support himself and his elementary school-aged daughter and makes enough to make frequent trips to see his extended family in states like Maryland and California.

I also have other friends and family who work at hotels, run hotels, drive for Uber and Lyft and other limousine/hired car companies who are able to support themselves fairly well off of Atlanta's event/convention business... Friends and family who likely would not be able to support themselves otherwise if Atlanta were not a major event and convention hub.

It is not fair that one high-profile member of the community (in this case, MB Stadium) does not have to pay property taxes for 30 years while almost everyone else does.

But on the other hand, these numbers (dollar figures) do not exist in a vacuum and they do not just exist on paper. These numbers/dollar figures have a wide-ranging positive impact on the community as a whole.

That roughly $15-30 billion that a facility like MB Stadium will generate throughout Atlanta's economy over the 30 years that it is exempt from paying property taxes will resonate through the Atlanta community.

MB Stadium may not be paying $700 million in property taxes over 30 years, but there is an argument to be made that the stadium's high-profile presence will enable the community as a whole to pay many times that amount in property and sales taxes over that 30-year period.

I feel excuses will always be made for corporations. Churches should also be paying property taxes. If the people get taxed, they need to get taxed too. This two-tiered justice system we have is revolting. It's a crime that they get exempt from paying taxes, especially when they are making how much profit.
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Old 01-22-2019, 03:57 PM
 
Location: Johns Creek area
9,727 posts, read 8,880,927 times
Reputation: 5241
Quote:
Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll View Post
I agree that it basically is not fair that Mercedes-Benz Stadium is exempted from paying property taxes for 30 years.

But... Looking at the bigger picture, a good question to ask is: "How much will Mercedes-Benz Stadium, and its status as being the home field of both an NFL team (Falcons) and a competitive MLS team (the 2018 MLS Champion Atlanta United), help to bring in to the local economy over the 30 years that it does not pay property taxes?"

Just the Super Bowl alone is projected to bring in about $400 million to Atlanta's economy.

And that's not counting all of the other revenue-generating major sporting events (including the Chick-Fil-A Kickoff Showcase, the SEC Championship Game, the Chick-Fil-A Peach Bowl, the College Football National Semifinal, the College Football National Championship Game, the 2020 NCAA Men's Basketball Final Four, Falcons home games, United home games, etc), large corporate meetings, major conventions and major corporate relocations that MB Stadium helps attract to the area that has a positive impact on Atlanta's economy.

Let's say that in most years, a major events facility like MB Stadium generates about $1 billion in activity for Atlanta's economy each year... That's about $30 BILLION in economic activity that a facility like MB Stadium is helping to generate over the 30 years that it will be exempt from paying in about $700 million in property taxes.

Now let's say that MB Stadium's impact on Atlanta's economy is grossly overestimated/overstated and that MB Stadium only generates half of that earlier number (basically $0.5 billion or $500 million) yearly...

Even with MB Stadium only generating about $500 million/yearly in economic activity, that still adds up to about $15 billion in activity that MB Stadium is generating for Atlanta's economy with all of the major sporting events, corporate meetings, conventions, corporate relocations, etc, that the stadium helps to attract to Atlanta.

Now, is it fair to taxpayers that a property like MB Stadium does not have to pay property taxes for 30 years while virtually everyone else in Fulton County does? Definitely not.

But there does seem to be an argument to be made that trading off $700 million in property tax payments over 30 years in exchange for at least $15 billion, and maybe $20-30 billion in economic activity over 30 years is a good deal for the city as a whole.

MB Stadium may not pay property taxes every year... But there is an argument to be made that the presence of a facility like MB Stadium in Atlanta enables many other facilities and properties in Fulton County (like Downtown/Midtown/Buckhead hotels, AirBnB/VRBO rentals, residential properties, commercial properties, etc.) to pay property and sales taxes that they potentially might not be able to pay if a facility like MB Stadium did not exist and was not attracting lots of visitors and newcomers to the city on an annual basis.

I can personally attest to the positive economic effects that a facility like MB Stadium has on the city.

I have a close friend who is like a brother to me who owns a limousine company and at least one AirBnB who makes a fairly good living and earns revenue when major sporting events, corporate meetings, major conventions, etc., come to the city. He does fairly well financially and is able to support himself and his elementary school-aged daughter and makes enough to make frequent trips to see his extended family in states like Maryland and California.

I also have other friends and family who work at hotels, run hotels, drive for Uber and Lyft and other limousine/hired car companies who are able to support themselves fairly well off of Atlanta's event/convention business... Friends and family who likely would not be able to support themselves otherwise if Atlanta were not a major event and convention hub.

It is not fair that one high-profile member of the community (in this case, MB Stadium) does not have to pay property taxes for 30 years while almost everyone else does.

But on the other hand, these numbers (dollar figures) do not exist in a vacuum and they do not just exist on paper. These numbers/dollar figures have a wide-ranging positive impact on the community as a whole.

That roughly $15-30 billion that a facility like MB Stadium will generate throughout Atlanta's economy over the 30 years that it is exempt from paying property taxes will resonate through the Atlanta community.

MB Stadium may not be paying $700 million in property taxes over 30 years, but there is an argument to be made that the stadium's high-profile presence will enable the community as a whole to pay many times that amount in property and sales taxes over that 30-year period.
Great post, as usual. However, I cannot agree - without reservation - that it is unfair for the stadium to have a property tax exemption. The ancillary economic activity it generates is tremendous. I'm sure the sales taxes it directly and indirectly generates are also tremendous. All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.

On the flip side, we all fretted when the State of Georgia rescinded the aviation fuel tax break, of which our own Delta Lines was the biggest recipient. So, we don't want to tax Delta with a particular tax but do not like it when MB Stadium has a tax break. Hmm... Also, I seem to recollect that NCR received about $60 million in local tax credits to move to Midtown, including, among other categories, a property tax abatement. I don't think that bothered too many folks. Then there is the Gulch deal...

At the end of the day, it all goes back to the age old argument of corporate welfare - is it fare and is it worth it? I think it can be unfair yet still very much worth it. Just my two cents.
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Old 01-22-2019, 07:39 PM
 
Location: NW Atlanta
5,080 posts, read 3,592,653 times
Reputation: 2708
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamerD View Post
I feel excuses will always be made for corporations. Churches should also be paying property taxes. If the people get taxed, they need to get taxed too. This two-tiered justice system we have is revolting. It's a crime that they get exempt from paying taxes, especially when they are making how much profit.

In that case, tax all non-profits as well.
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Old Yesterday, 08:16 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,684 posts, read 16,700,775 times
Reputation: 5094
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamerD View Post
I feel excuses will always be made for corporations. Churches should also be paying property taxes. If the people get taxed, they need to get taxed too. This two-tiered justice system we have is revolting. It's a crime that they get exempt from paying taxes, especially when they are making how much profit.
Excellent point, that the existing land use before the stadium was not producing property taxes either.
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