Milton, John's Creek, & Peachtree City named safest Cities in Georgia

[PTC Dad]

[quote=JayHey;54421174]To reiterate, this is 100% false. No statistics or study will show that this has any truth to it. It is a tired trope of a racist scaremonger. Stop repeating it. What studies do show is that areas served by mass transit see a reduction in crime. Do yourself a huge favor and read this: https://www.citylab.com/equity/2014/...tlanta/383609/

It is intellectually dishonest to repeat that public transit brings crime. Don't be a dumb liar.





I like how you purport to know my motives. I don't claim to be an expert on mass transit and don't blame it solely for crime rates. I think it's a confluence of factors.

Also, the article you post does't appear to offer a prospective analysis, but more of a retrospective study that doesn't provide conclusive priori evidence. I think it only studied data at 2 rail stations. That doesn't seem to be enough data points to confirm the hypothesis. They even admit in the study that vagrancy and larceny did increase around the rail stations, but I'm open to evidence, and I don't oppose mass transit.

You seem to admit there is definitely a correlation between poverty and increased crime rates, and if a size-able segment of mass transit (rail and bus) users are lower income; wouldn't the crime rate in area more affluent than the mass transit population increase once that area is accessed by mass transit? This seems to be the anecdotal evidence presented with BART's expansion to the East Bay shopping center.

Conversely, if the majority of mass transit users are similar economically to the area the mass transit accesses, then there shouldn't be any impact on crime rate.

[aslowdodge]

Originally Posted by JayHey

That sounds pretty interesting, mind sharing the neighborhood or station name? I'd like to read about one that goes against so much of the established statistics.

Sure, The first was Bayfair Mall in San Leandro Ca and it was the Bayfair Station.
Years later it was Stoneridge mall in Pleasanton using the Dublin Station. Stoneridge continues to be a nice mall, but crime has risen some there.

[DabOnEm]

Originally Posted by aslowdodge

Sure, The first was Bayfair Mall in San Leandro Ca and it was the Bayfair Station.
Years later it was Stoneridge mall in Pleasanton using the Dublin Station. Stoneridge continues to be a nice mall, but crime has risen some there.

The BART Station at Bay Fair opened in 1972, which was 15 years after the mall opened. 46 years later and the mall is still open. What made it decline some was department stores closing (like Montgomery Ward) and the growth of other inner East Bay suburbs. Stoneridge Mall in Pleasanton has had crime since the early 00s before the BART station opened. It seems to fluctuate randomly.

[JayHey]

Thanks aslow, Bayfair station opened in '72. That's too long ago to easily find crime statistics, but blaming a transit station on crime rising in a neighborhood that was undergoing rapid demographic change due to white flight (which drives home values down and sees jobs leaving the immediate area) and during the infamous 1970s peak crime wave seems dubious to me.

As for Pleasanton, maybe it's not as bad as you've heard since it made a list of safest cities in CA less than two years ago: https://patch.com/california/pleasan...ncludes-dublin

[markjames68]

Originally Posted by NorthAtlanta

As a decade long resident of different North Atlanta cities including Alpharetta, Cumming, Milton etc I feel like most of the people living in these areas feel that expanding public transit will bring more crime and are averse to any Marta expansion to these areas.

I don't have any opinion on this matter as I don't have any factual data but it was my observation talking to people in these areas. When I moved into the area, most people I knew complained about how bad the ride was to midtown or airport but were still ok with going through that drive instead of pushing for more transit.

I’m new here but have heard the same. Like there will be hordes of MARTA riders swarming in...

[budgetwise5]

There are subway stations and bus stops every three blocks or less in Manhattan, and yet somehow their crime rate, for a city much larger than Atlanta, has been decreasing for the past three decades. There is a large connecting subway station called Columbus Circle right at the location of Trump Tower, yet many wealthy New Yorkers ride the trains and subways without incidence every day. I don’t understand the logic of transit bringing in crime, when there are cities throughout the world with excellent transit and low rates of crime.

I think the issue really lies in a different type of generational racism in the south, and fear and distrust of others.

[aslowdodge]

Originally Posted by JayHey

Thanks aslow, Bayfair station opened in '72. That's too long ago to easily find crime statistics, but blaming a transit station on crime rising in a neighborhood that was undergoing rapid demographic change due to white flight (which drives home values down and sees jobs leaving the immediate area) and during the infamous 1970s peak crime wave seems dubious to me.

As for Pleasanton, maybe it's not as bad as you've heard since it made a list of safest cities in CA less than two years ago: https://patch.com/california/pleasan...ncludes-dublin

When I lived in Hayward we went to bayfair for our shopping. It was pleasant enough. Things did change when Bart arrived. I know kids got mugged for their expensive tennis shoes and other sports clothing at Bart And bayfair back then when people were getting jacked for that kind of stuff. I’m not going to say that Bart was the sole reason, but I think it contributed. I worked out at the 24 hour fitness at bayfair for years 5 days a week and you could see the changes. The whole area went downhill. A lot of car break ins, car jacking for a while. I pretty much stopped going to bayfair. Again, I can’t say public transportation was entirely ar fault.
Is it possible that increased crime led to white flight?
I can tell you that back in the 60s and 70s it was well known that if you were black and from Oakland and were spotted walking in San Leandro you got a free ride back to Oakland by the police. That died off in the late 70s and in unincorporated San Leandro by bayfair demographics rapidly changed. That surely played a part in white flight there.

Pleasanton is indeed a safe area, but I do believe crime at the mall itself has gone up. Nothing violent. More like shoplifting, car break ins, and car theft. Again I can’t say Bart is the reason, but as a resident of Pleasanton we did see crime rise when Bart got there. Most of the long time residents would agree.
Could all be coincidence or just the times changing. I do know people that had things stolen from their cars at stoneridge who said that many years ago that never happened.