U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Georgia > Atlanta
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-20-2019, 08:21 PM
 
5,981 posts, read 5,280,875 times
Reputation: 3986

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
I've thought a lot about this. Just as Millennials said, "why are we living in the boring suburbs when we can go revitalize the cities that were popular a generation or two ago?" an upcoming generation might say, "why are we walking in the heat, cold and rain to get from store to store? You know, our great grandparents had a much more elegant solution to this."
That is a good point.

But unfortunately, that possible realization by a future generation of retail consumers likely may not come anywhere near in enough time to save currently struggling bricks-and-mortar retailers like Sears, JcPenney's, etc.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-21-2019, 05:12 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
1,896 posts, read 2,106,468 times
Reputation: 2083
Quote:
Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll View Post
That is a really good point that clothing has an advantage in retail that many other goods do not have.

That is also a really good point that some locations will (or may) remain viable as long as there is demand for clothing that fits.

It is just not a certainty that a retailer like JcPenney (whom appears to be increasingly cash-strapped after years and years of poor management) will continue to remain viable for an extended period of time.



"J.C. Penney deciding to stop selling appliances signals why it's dying" (Yahoo Finance, 7 Feb 2019)

Meanwhile, Macy's is nowhere near as in bad of a shape as JcPenney's or Sears (which is pretty much the walking dead at this point in time).

But Macy's is still experiencing some significant struggles in the highly challenging retail environment of circa-2019 as a retailer built for a much different time before online shopping and the changing spending habits of a generation like the Millennials (whom generally seem to prefer investing in life experiences over purely material purchases).

"Why Macy's Is Closing More Stores in 2019
… The largest U.S. department store chain still has too much overlap among its locations.
" (The Motley Fool, 15 Jan 2019)

With a seemingly more stable customer base, I think that the Macy's location at the Mall of Georgia is likely (but by no means guaranteed) to stay in place for the foreseeable future, while the Macy's location down the road at the struggling Gwinnett Place Mall is significantly more likely to be in serious jeopardy of closing in the not-too-distant future.

Meanwhile, with JcPenney's being in a significantly worse financial position than Macy's, there could be some concern about how long the JcPenney's location at the Mall of Georgia will continue to operate.
JC Penney’s customers are old and mostly gone.

I have always thought they should close for 6 months and open with a new name that might get noticed by millenials. The public’s attention span is so short that 75% wouldn’t realize it actually JC Penney.

Remember when the man who designed the Apple Stores tried to turn Jc Penney arojbf with the square seals and no sales or coupons?

That flopped big time and the core customer loved the sales and coupon. They said the new merchandise was cheap quality too.

The funniest desperate commercial by Sears was about 5 yea ago when this multicultural girls walking down aisle on an airplane got complimented on her outfit & asked where she got it. Age says Sears and another girl makes a facial expression of surprise and admiration of the wearer’s smarts for knowing what she didn’t.

It’s so laughable and cheesy, to try to sell Sears as the in-place for the latest styles in fashion.

Last edited by architect77; 02-21-2019 at 05:28 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2019, 09:43 AM
 
1,433 posts, read 1,621,181 times
Reputation: 867
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
I've thought a lot about this. Just as Millennials said, "why are we living in the boring suburbs when we can go revitalize the cities that were popular a generation or two ago?" an upcoming generation might say, "why are we walking in the heat, cold and rain to get from store to store? You know, our great grandparents had a much more elegant solution to this."
We have come to understand that the decline of cities was not because of some changing trends but a direct result of government policy. Nowhere else in the world did cities experience decline to the extent that occurred in the US. Apart from government policies that tips the scales toward the suburbs , there will always be a segment of the population that prefers an urban lifestyle.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2019, 11:05 AM
 
4,694 posts, read 3,082,442 times
Reputation: 3055
Quote:
Originally Posted by sedimenjerry View Post
I have my doubts. Particularly when they're designed to fully replace malls. Check this out in Pearland, TX (outside Houston). It's literally a mall design, but with outdoor corridors instead of indoor hallways. When it's 95 and humid, who wants to walk store to store in the heat? At least First Colony mall in Sugarland has a mixture. Fairview Town Center is similar to Pearland's, but with regular 100+ temps. The only advantage is you can park right outside some of the stores. But if you need to walk from Dillard's to JCPenney, good luck.
Those places look awful. I mean, I'm a car guy and want to park as close as I can to my destination, but if you're going to design an outdoor mall like that, at least make the interiors just a walking area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J2rescue View Post
We have come to understand that the decline of cities was not because of some changing trends but a direct result of government policy. Nowhere else in the world did cities experience decline to the extent that occurred in the US. Apart from government policies that tips the scales toward the suburbs , there will always be a segment of the population that prefers an urban lifestyle.
This is like saying that legalizing weed is essentially forcing people to smoke weed. I think you mean a government policy that gave people the freedom to get what they wanted. The fact that the inner cities declined is proof positive that people wanted to move out and have bigger houses, more land, etc. If they wanted to stay in those areas, they would have stayed. Simply because it was made possible isn't what made people suddenly want to move further out. People wanting it is what drove the policy. Has there ever been any real reason that residential buildings couldn't be built in downtown and midtown?

Of course there will always be a segment that prefers the urban lifestyle, but it's generally pretty small in America. They'll always be suburban people, rural people, remote-island people, mansion people, tiny-house people, micro-apartment people, yard people, lake people, beach people, car people, motorcycle people, transit people, bike people, walking people...everything. No one is trying to take the urban lifestyle away from the inner city where it belongs, and select other areas. But trying to make that urban lifestyle all over the city in places where it's just not wanted or needed by anyone but a very small segment of the population isn't very good policy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2019, 11:13 AM
 
8,096 posts, read 9,934,857 times
Reputation: 6053
I think a big problem with these "lifestyle centers" is they are just as generic and cookie cutter as other parts of suburbia that are great when they are new and fresh, but people start to loathe when their blandness sinks in.

If you want to build an outdoor shopping center, at least take advantage of the fact that you're outside...and incorporate that element into design, like The Falls did in Coral Gables. That's probably why it's been so successful for 4 decades.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2019, 11:32 AM
 
Location: East Cobb, GA—>Dallas, TX
974 posts, read 427,702 times
Reputation: 1499
I think it’s a combination of topography and the lack of planning due to the lack of incorporated cities.

The way governments plan roads and development in North Georgia is so odd. Subdivisions often only have one entrance/exit to a two lane road which will then feed onto a 4 lane road which in turn feeds onto a freeway. Businesses almost always are located directly off of a major road such as GA 20. Sometimes they’ll be creative and just add a road that dead-ends and put more stores off of it.

Atlanta started to rapidly grow during the 80s and 90s when the shopping mall and brick-and-mortar stores had their peak. Everything was done on the cheap with no planning, and it’s going to catch up with us.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2019, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,984 posts, read 16,974,129 times
Reputation: 5214
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
Those places look awful. I mean, I'm a car guy and want to park as close as I can to my destination, but if you're going to design an outdoor mall like that, at least make the interiors just a walking area.



This is like saying that legalizing weed is essentially forcing people to smoke weed. I think you mean a government policy that gave people the freedom to get what they wanted. The fact that the inner cities declined is proof positive that people wanted to move out and have bigger houses, more land, etc. If they wanted to stay in those areas, they would have stayed. Simply because it was made possible isn't what made people suddenly want to move further out. People wanting it is what drove the policy. Has there ever been any real reason that residential buildings couldn't be built in downtown and midtown?

Of course there will always be a segment that prefers the urban lifestyle, but it's generally pretty small in America. They'll always be suburban people, rural people, remote-island people, mansion people, tiny-house people, micro-apartment people, yard people, lake people, beach people, car people, motorcycle people, transit people, bike people, walking people...everything. No one is trying to take the urban lifestyle away from the inner city where it belongs, and select other areas. But trying to make that urban lifestyle all over the city in places where it's just not wanted or needed by anyone but a very small segment of the population isn't very good policy.
Redlining reduced lending to minority, mixed race, and urban areas. This made it more difficult for existing homeowners to get loans for renovations, upgrades, etc.
White people moved out because suburban communities , like Levittown, were sold to them as being white-only and having laws against selling to minorities.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2019, 11:47 AM
 
969 posts, read 889,088 times
Reputation: 1320
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
I think a big problem with these "lifestyle centers" is they are just as generic and cookie cutter as other parts of suburbia that are great when they are new and fresh, but people start to loathe when their blandness sinks in.

If you want to build an outdoor shopping center, at least take advantage of the fact that you're outside...and incorporate that element into design, like The Falls did in Coral Gables. That's probably why it's been so successful for 4 decades.
Yes, if you're a mall, it's all about reinvention. When you think about it, it shouldn't surprise anyone that a 30 or 40 year old (that's a long time!!!) building is now out of date and needs to be demolished. We've all grown tired of the typical mall from the 70's and 80's (3 dead end branches anchored by Macy's, Sears, & JC Penney. Escalator in each end with an elevator in the middle of a 3 level atrium with a food court in the middle. Food court has a chicken place, 2 chinese, 1 japanese, 1 greek, 1 arby's, 1 subway, 1 Sbarro, 1 auntie annes, etc. 1 "fun" space that has rotated through an arcade, then a glow in the dark mini golf, and now it houses a framing store) In fact, now we're starting to get tired of Gap, Express, Old Navy, The Limited being in our malls etc.....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2019, 04:39 PM
 
1,433 posts, read 1,621,181 times
Reputation: 867
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post


This is like saying that legalizing weed is essentially forcing people to smoke weed. I think you mean a government policy that gave people the freedom to get what they wanted. The fact that the inner cities declined is proof positive that people wanted to move out and have bigger houses, more land, etc. If they wanted to stay in those areas, they would have stayed. Simply because it was made possible isn't what made people suddenly want to move further out. People wanting it is what drove the policy.
No. That is not at all what I mean.

Its like saying that making it financially advantageous to smoke weed and a financial disadvantage to not smoke weed, then it will encourage more people to light up.

Government policy specifically favored one form of development through incentives and investment and still does to this day.

FHA policy heavily favors suburban development. The source article goes into further detail on ways that make it much more difficult to qualify for FHA in multifamily development.

Quote:
the agency has “insured over 34 million home mortgages and 47,205 multifamily project mortgages since 1934. FHA currently has 4.8 million insured single family mortgages and 13,000 insured multifamily projects
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.for...n-density/amp/


Quote:
Has there ever been any real reason that residential buildings couldn't be built in downtown and midtown?

Absolutley. For many years it was impossible to invest in the red and even adjacent neighborhoods regardless of one's race. Redlining essentially mandated that downtown would become surrounded by blight and disinvestment.


https://slate.com/business/2018/04/r...very-city.html

Locally transportation policies not only dedicated billions in support of the sprawl but decimated in town neighborhoods in cities across the country, further ensuring their decline.


https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/...IHc1vLexQ.jpeg


https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/...OASKmpc_g.jpeg


Generally, about one third of the population prefers an urban lifestyle while another third doesn't have strong preference for either suburban or urban. As opposed to mere conjecture, this is based on numerous studies of the subject.

I am on my phone so hopefully the links work.

Last edited by J2rescue; 02-21-2019 at 05:33 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2019, 05:38 PM
 
1,444 posts, read 1,411,558 times
Reputation: 4084
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
I've thought a lot about this. Just as Millennials said, "why are we living in the boring suburbs when we can go revitalize the cities that were popular a generation or two ago?" an upcoming generation might say, "why are we walking in the heat, cold and rain to get from store to store? You know, our great grandparents had a much more elegant solution to this."

I've thought about this too. The closest shopping center to me is a huge new style strip mall. I guess one advantage to having an outdoor entrance to each store is the signage that quickly lets you know what's there and gives every store an anchor store presence. It's usually pretty busy, but I go when the weather is decent. If it's raining (and we get our fair share here in GA) or blowing like crazy or it's cold (for GA, let's be real ) or super, super hot I put my shopping on hold for another day or hop online. I wonder if others do the same? When we were kids shopping could be a bad weather day experience because once you were inside you could hide from the elements while shopping and getting lunch or dinner. Not so now, dodging from store to store doesn't appeal at all. I wouldn't be surprised if some reinvention of the mall of our childhoods appears in a few years or more.

Another interesting note though..if I think of all the major stores at the strip mall close to me all are the retailers that have managed to build a great online presence. So maybe they don't care if I shop at the store or not because I am going to buy from them either way...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Georgia > Atlanta
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. | Please obey Forum Rules | Terms of Use and Privacy Policy

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top