U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Georgia > Atlanta
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-21-2019, 08:22 AM
 
8,035 posts, read 9,878,977 times
Reputation: 5985

Advertisements

Quote:
But bypass loops remove trucks from inner freeways
Only when police enforce the law. Which as we know, they have little interest in doing here. We can't even keep 18-wheelers out of the left lanes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-21-2019, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,877 posts, read 16,873,592 times
Reputation: 5178
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
Only when police enforce the law. Which as we know, they have little interest in doing here. We can't even keep 18-wheelers out of the left lanes.
If you were a police officer, would you want to stand on the side of 285 writing a ticket as vehicles pass by at high speed not following the move-over law?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2019, 10:38 AM
 
8,035 posts, read 9,878,977 times
Reputation: 5985
No, but I see them do that stuff ALL THE TIME with regular cars. Pulling over on the left shoulder should be illegal.

So I'm calling that out as a total BS excuse to not enforce the law. Have them pull over on the right side.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2019, 01:59 PM
 
4,396 posts, read 4,274,226 times
Reputation: 3405
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
And several of you fail to acknowledge that condemnation happens all over the country. All these Marta projects require condemnations. Y’all act like it is something unusual. New York and New Jersey have used it for things like private casino parking lots
Not to the degree building a freaking freeway, a 4 to 6 lane freeway is already significant a lot wider than a transit line, and let not get started on interchanges.


https://www.ajc.com/rf/image_lowres/...ads_578837.jpg


https://www.ajc.com/rf/image_lowres/...tio_464211.jpg


but you did exactly what I said....... 1. You keep telling what other places do and most of cities your comparing are largely grided metro or set aside A lot of land. If Building Houston freeway razed neighbors and property imagine the damage Houston freeways would do if placed over Metro Atlanta,

Houston is largely a grid this means Houston can widen roads with out going far into interior of neighborhoods, with a bunch of other roads that can serve as commercial main roads. But in Atlanta either your going cut straight through the heart of neighborhoods or either your going replace the limited commercial main roads with a freeway and so now there less commercial main routes. In Metro Atlanta there aren't enough secondary routes to serve as main commercial corridors to just turn a main road into freeways.


2. Your disconnect and have lack of empathy, your basically volunteering other people property, Something that is said so much easier when it's not your neighborhood or community that means a lot to you. It comes off as extremely elitist. To a build a freeway required vastly more than MARTA stations and lines. Your basically going other city build freeways so I don't care your neighborhood being razed it's no big deal to me.

I'm not against building freeways but there have a logical approach to them other massively destroying Metro Atlanta or being far out in the exurbs,

Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
I remember a neighborhood in Houston that fought high sound walls because they were ugly. Sounds like aircraft going overhead now. Elevated structures can sometimes be a lot more disruptive than wider footprints
Freeways are loud in general there no way around that if you want more freeways, My suggestion to build Elevated freeways roads, So that way we be able to keep roads under as well it provides clear routes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2019, 09:43 PM
bu2 bu2 started this thread
 
9,414 posts, read 6,030,057 times
Reputation: 3832
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
Not to the degree building a freaking freeway, a 4 to 6 lane freeway is already significant a lot wider than a transit line, and let not get started on interchanges.


https://www.ajc.com/rf/image_lowres/...ads_578837.jpg


https://www.ajc.com/rf/image_lowres/...tio_464211.jpg


but you did exactly what I said....... 1. You keep telling what other places do and most of cities your comparing are largely grided metro or set aside A lot of land. If Building Houston freeway razed neighbors and property imagine the damage Houston freeways would do if placed over Metro Atlanta,

Houston is largely a grid this means Houston can widen roads with out going far into interior of neighborhoods, with a bunch of other roads that can serve as commercial main roads. But in Atlanta either your going cut straight through the heart of neighborhoods or either your going replace the limited commercial main roads with a freeway and so now there less commercial main routes. In Metro Atlanta there aren't enough secondary routes to serve as main commercial corridors to just turn a main road into freeways.


2. Your disconnect and have lack of empathy, your basically volunteering other people property, Something that is said so much easier when it's not your neighborhood or community that means a lot to you. It comes off as extremely elitist. To a build a freeway required vastly more than MARTA stations and lines. Your basically going other city build freeways so I don't care your neighborhood being razed it's no big deal to me.

I'm not against building freeways but there have a logical approach to them other massively destroying Metro Atlanta or being far out in the exurbs,



Freeways are loud in general there no way around that if you want more freeways, My suggestion to build Elevated freeways roads, So that way we be able to keep roads under as well it provides clear routes.
Atlanta is far and away the least dense metro in the top 30. Other than Charlotte, far and away the least dense in the top 50. And Charlotte is building freeways. There are VAST amounts of open land outside 285. It seems like a lot of you have never been outside 285 or never been in a more dense city other than NY. The Houston and Dallas metros are 2/3 more dense than Atlanta, yet they can build outer loops. Charlotte is doing it. Nashville has done about 2/3 of one. Montgomery, AL is even working on one. Chicago is looking at another one on the south side.

The beltline is acquiring people's property. A bunch of you were anxious to tear down everything in that property just north of Piedmont Park. And it will take some stuff down. Elitists are the NIMBYs who don't want anything near them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2019, 09:59 PM
 
1,354 posts, read 582,408 times
Reputation: 1124
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
Not to the degree building a freaking freeway, a 4 to 6 lane freeway is already significant a lot wider than a transit line, and let not get started on interchanges.


https://www.ajc.com/rf/image_lowres/...ads_578837.jpg


https://www.ajc.com/rf/image_lowres/...tio_464211.jpg


but you did exactly what I said....... 1. You keep telling what other places do and most of cities your comparing are largely grided metro or set aside A lot of land. If Building Houston freeway razed neighbors and property imagine the damage Houston freeways would do if placed over Metro Atlanta,

Houston is largely a grid this means Houston can widen roads with out going far into interior of neighborhoods, with a bunch of other roads that can serve as commercial main roads. But in Atlanta either your going cut straight through the heart of neighborhoods or either your going replace the limited commercial main roads with a freeway and so now there less commercial main routes. In Metro Atlanta there aren't enough secondary routes to serve as main commercial corridors to just turn a main road into freeways.


2. Your disconnect and have lack of empathy, your basically volunteering other people property, Something that is said so much easier when it's not your neighborhood or community that means a lot to you. It comes off as extremely elitist. To a build a freeway required vastly more than MARTA stations and lines. Your basically going other city build freeways so I don't care your neighborhood being razed it's no big deal to me.

I'm not against building freeways but there have a logical approach to them other massively destroying Metro Atlanta or being far out in the exurbs,



Freeways are loud in general there no way around that if you want more freeways, My suggestion to build Elevated freeways roads, So that way we be able to keep roads under as well it provides clear routes.
Sorry, I disagree with 90% of this.

Houston's freeways helped Houston more than hurt it.

Its tenfold easier to bypass Houston than it is Atlanta as well.

And lastly, this has nothing to do with empathy. It's about the greater good. I would have absolutely no issue with sacrificing my home for a better mode of transportation in Atlanta. I feel those who do have an issue with it are self centered upon their lifestyle and unconcerned in general about the impact they have on millions of other lives. We are talking about a fairly small number of communities in comparison to the grand scheme of the major population. Weighing odds here there is no way a couple of nay-sayers should have so much political impact as to stifle a region. Something like this never would have happened in places like Chicago, New York, Boston, even if the public opposed it with brute opposition.

As for building Highways vs Transit...right now Atlanta NEEDS more Transit ... but both are equally as important... as far as building interchanges, its not like those occur every other block.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2019, 10:33 PM
 
Location: NW Atlanta
5,135 posts, read 3,633,190 times
Reputation: 2743
Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4Camaro View Post
And lastly, this has nothing to do with empathy. It's about the greater good. I would have absolutely no issue with sacrificing my home for a better mode of transportation in Atlanta. I feel those who do have an issue with it are self centered upon their lifestyle and unconcerned in general about the impact they have on millions of other lives. We are talking about a fairly small number of communities in comparison to the grand scheme of the major population. Weighing odds here there is no way a couple of nay-sayers should have so much political impact as to stifle a region. Something like this never would have happened in places like Chicago, New York, Boston, even if the public opposed it with brute opposition.

Greater good my [rear end]. Why the hell should I have to sacrifice my home for a freeway just so some idiot that decided to live 30 miles from work can save five minutes per day on their commute (at least before the inevitable induced demand clogs up the road)?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2019, 10:47 PM
 
4,618 posts, read 3,043,998 times
Reputation: 3000
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
You're talking about DOT. I'm talking about the supply chain professionals who work at the companies who plan truck routes and traffic.

But really good companies have highly skilled engineers who plan all this stuff out.
Yeah, you're talking about major logistics operations. Those are likely a small fraction of truck traffic. A huge amount of truck traffic is independent truckers or smaller local trucking operations who work solely on "we need you to pick this up at this time and drop it off at this time" operations. The kind of stuff done through trucking brokers and independent drivers. When I worked with a museum exhibit company, we generally needed 8-10 trucks to move our stuff. We didn't have a big-name logistics company. We had a broker who called a bunch of independent truckers who showed up. Oftentimes, these people could barely back trucking into a dock. Where I work now is next to a major warehouse operation. The trucks line both lanes of the two-lane road, closing it down to a single lane for several hundred feet. None of those trucks have supply-chain names on them. They're all "Billy Joe Bob's Trucking" tractors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
Atlanta is the cradle of Civil Rights movement
.....what??

Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
The beltline is acquiring people's property. A bunch of you were anxious to tear down everything in that property just north of Piedmont Park. And it will take some stuff down.
Whoa, whoa, whoa!!! It's okay if it's for stuff they like!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-22-2019, 12:03 AM
 
4,396 posts, read 4,274,226 times
Reputation: 3405
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
Atlanta is far and away the least dense metro in the top 30. Other than Charlotte, far and away the least dense in the top 50. And Charlotte is building freeways. There are VAST amounts of open land outside 285. It seems like a lot of you have never been outside 285 or never been in a more dense city other than NY. The Houston and Dallas metros are 2/3 more dense than Atlanta, yet they can build outer loops. Charlotte is doing it. Nashville has done about 2/3 of one. Montgomery, AL is even working on one. Chicago is looking at another one on the south side.

The beltline is acquiring people's property. A bunch of you were anxious to tear down everything in that property just north of Piedmont Park. And it will take some stuff down. Elitists are the NIMBYs who don't want anything near them.
My user name is Chicago-Atlanta-Dallas, And I actually use live in a Charlotte growing up for two years but that another story. Suggestion I never been outside 285 sort of doesn't make sense.

You got Several things you got mix up.... density of metro are base on density of the entire metro sq mi, not density base radius from a set point. Due metros are different square this means density is measuring different distances.

1. "Whole" MSA density data is misleading because it count whole counties that include rural areas, and even urban area is misleading because it continue as long a their a thousand people per square. Neither is a density base radius.

Most US metros are 4,000 to 5,000 sq mi. And the bigger one that goes beyond like Atlanta, New York, Chicago, Dallas, Houston etc, outside of that 4,000 is where it get really exurban.

This distorts how dense and populated Atlanta 5 or even 10 county regions is. For example Atlanta MSA is Actually denser and more populated than the Boston region under 4,000 sq mi. This means Atlanta is in the top 10 with density under 4,000 sq mi. So if you actually compare most metro outside the top 10 especially outside the top 15 to Atlanta density under a 4,000 sq mi it going look like a joke.

So you can say the total 8,000 sq mi or total urban areas is one least dense in the top 30. but base on radius the part where most of metro Atlanta lives is denser than most metros in the country.


2. You mis understood what I was saying altogether because it had nothing to do with density in the first place.. It's not density it's organization. because Houston is in a grid it's more organize this creates easier paths to develop freeways, compare to Atlanta which is random.

Houston a grid, even it's freeways make squares. Houston building new freeways isn't cutting diagonally throw neighborhoods. What they are doing is widen state roads This does raze property directly next to these state roads but this is minimal compare to going straight throw neighborhoods which they aren't. They can also do this because they can afford to loose a main road because being a grid means there are other parallel main roads.




With Atlanta this would be an issue, because Atlanta already can't afford to loose main roads. If you widen a main road and turn it into a freeway now you lost a whole commercial corridor. In Which there are no other parallel for it. If Atlanta did build the northern arch you would be removing an entire commercial corridor with no commercial road replacement for those areas a long that path.

The other option is worst and this where the real issue comes in, You can't just build a freeway from Milton to big creek or where ever, there no clear path for it, to do so then you cutting directly throw neighborhoods.



3. The third your not understanding the difference in amount of property being required to be move, Building the Beltline or a transit line is nothing compare to building a 4 to 6 lane freeways with interchanges and etc. Your comparing a hill to a mountain, The later is removing vastly several times more property it's almost like a joke that keeping trying to compare.

4. "Elitists are the NIMBYs who don't want anything near them."

Dude this not "near them" this through them. They can't be near if they aren't there. Now you calling people "NIMBYs" for not leaving there communities because you want them too.

Think about what your saying for a second "Oh you Elitists won't give up yall homes and community because I want a road though them."

The point I keep making to you it's easy to suggest other people to give things that doesn't evolve you. If the government told you to move and they tearing down your neighborhoods or where grow up you might be resistant. Everything is fine and dandy as long as it's their community over there.... this comes off as elitist. In fact why don't you call your local representative and tell you want to give your home up for a road to be built though it. Your not looking at this through a personal lens then you will understand why other people are resistant.

Last edited by chiatldal; 02-22-2019 at 12:15 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-22-2019, 12:34 AM
 
4,396 posts, read 4,274,226 times
Reputation: 3405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4Camaro View Post
Sorry, I disagree with 90% of this.

Houston's freeways helped Houston more than hurt it.

Its tenfold easier to bypass Houston than it is Atlanta as well.

And lastly, this has nothing to do with empathy. It's about the greater good. I would have absolutely no issue with sacrificing my home for a better mode of transportation in Atlanta. I feel those who do have an issue with it are self centered upon their lifestyle and unconcerned in general about the impact they have on millions of other lives. We are talking about a fairly small number of communities in comparison to the grand scheme of the major population. Weighing odds here there is no way a couple of nay-sayers should have so much political impact as to stifle a region. Something like this never would have happened in places like Chicago, New York, Boston, even if the public opposed it with brute opposition.

As for building Highways vs Transit...right now Atlanta NEEDS more Transit ... but both are equally as important... as far as building interchanges, its not like those occur every other block.
That's funny cause 90% above is not even a response to me. lol but seriously most of what you said has little to do with my post. Starting from the central point I'm not against freeways, I even suggested ideas for building freeways............ my point is Atlanta is in a situation where it physically more difficult to build freeways than Houston.

My other point is it's easier to tell other people to leave their home and community than being the person told to leave your home. If you tell most there be a new freeway near they would be like great....... but tell it's your community being sacrifice then they be like.... nope.

Last edited by chiatldal; 02-22-2019 at 01:52 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Georgia > Atlanta
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top