My Atlanta commuter rail network

[samiwas1]

Very nice...here are a few of my comments...

Definitely take the line which ends at PTC down to Senoia. I know a few people who live there and commute up every day, and they say a lot of people live there and work near the airport.

The station and parking deck you have at 285 by the river, put here instead. There is space in this corner to put a large TOD and commuter deck.

The ATL-CMB line that splits just north of the river, cut that portion to the east, and stick with the line to the west through Tilford Yard, especially if there are no stations along there. That is the route for the Silver Comet extension.

The Jimmy Carter parking deck is the location of a new townhome development.

I'd combine the Fairburn and Union City stops (only three miles apart) to a larger station at the intersection of 29 and 138.

I could go on a little more, but that's it for now.

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by MattCW

I've been working on this since about 2009. It's how I would build out Atlanta's commuter rail network if I was lord high dictator of the region. I've called it GRACE: GReater Atlanta Commuter Express. The downtown station would have 8 tracks, 4 running E-W roughly between Ted Turner Dr and the middle of the gulch parking area (leaving enough space to make the turn north or south onto the existing tracks) and good for 12 cars (1020 ft). The other 4 tracks would run N-S roughly under State Farm Arena and be good for 16 cars (1360 ft). The primary headhouse would be in the block surrounded by Ted Turner Dr, Alabama St, and Forsyth St with street-level access as well as a pedestrian bridge to Five Points. Additional headhouse space could extend over the existing gulch and provide a tie-in to the Dome/GWCC/Philips Arena MARTA station (that's the name that's still showing). Blue is track and track structures (platforms, layover yards, etc.), ignore the different shades of blue. Green are parking lots, used only at lower-density stations, purple is for parking structures (decks, pedestrian bridges) and roadways.


At full build-out, all lines (except Ball Ground) would be at least double track, with the line to Austell likely requiring triple track. All lines would be electrified except the Ball Ground Branch. Equipment would be full double-decker EMUs (similar to Metra Electric or South Shore but equipped for 25kV AC instead of 1500v DC). Speeds would be raised where possible to 79/80mph. Between Atlanta and Inman/Tilford yards, I imagine a separate 4-track elevated structure good for at least 110mph along with a station at 10th st (route partially shown, station not shown in detail). Additionally, I imagine a similar structure between Atlanta and the airport (6-track airport station partially shown).

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Yv...wM&usp=sharing


My service area goal was 30-40 miles from Atlanta, initially I stopped commuter service at Acworth, but Cartersville is really close to that boundary. Gainesville and Athens are farther, but big enough to easily justify the extra distance.



My design goals for the stations and placements were to have walkable downtown stops, as well as large P&R stations at major roads (Lawrenceville/Lawrenceville Airport, Conyers/Rockdale West, Duluth/Pleasant Hill Rd, etc.). There should be decent opportunity for TOD at many of these, though some of the P&R stations aren't necessarily suited for that, but I noted TOD in a few places. Also note that the sizes of platforms in particular are not to scale, most would likely be narrower than shown. Platform lengths are shown as 680 ft for 8 cars, but most stations have room for a 12-car platform (1020 ft). Ball Ground Branch platforms are 400ft.



Also, for lines that reach a MARTA station, I leave the first opportunity as the MARTA transfer with no other stops closer in with the exception of the Suwanee-Gainesville line which stops at Doraville, Lenox, and 10th @ Monroe. All are too big a destination or transfer opportunitiy to ignore. Also the Newnan and Peachtree City lines stop at airport and East Point because transferring to MARTA at the airport is a long transfer on the Skytrain. I could have done College Park, but the Griffin Line would still need a stop at East Point. I also envision most services running through as outbound service on another line, this would reduce storage requirements downtown, and reduce the need to deadhead trains to outlying terminals, or rather they'd "deadhead" but also pickup passengers, if it's going that way anyways, might as well serve someone.



Line by line notes:

• Covington Line:
  • All trains all stops
  • Avondale is MARTA transfer
  • Opportunity for Covington airport station
  • Major maintenance facility
    • Low density rail line can handle numerous "deadhead" movements.
• Lawrenceville/Athens Line:
  • Mix of inner-zone locals, outer-zone expresses, and inner-zone limited stop trains (rush hour only)
  • Bulk of service between Lawrenceville Airport (major P&R) and Atlanta
  • Direct service to all of UGA
  • Clifton Corridor at Emory is only MARTA transfer outside Atlanta.
• Suwanee/Gainesville Line:
  • Mix of inner-zone locals, outer-zone expresses, and inner-zone limited stop trains (rush hour only)
  • Bulk of service between Suwanee and Atlanta
  • Some service continues to Airport
  • Services Doraville (to be major transfer point), Lenox, and Midtown via 10th St
  • Gainesville Station additionally serves Amtrak's Crescent
  • Many trains would run through to/from Peachtree City or Newnan for direct airport service
• Cartersville Line:
  • Potential for inner/outer zone service pattern, possibly breaking at Marietta
  • Future transfer to MARTA/Streetcar at 10th St Transit Center
  • Limited P&R opportunities, just Jiles Rd and Cobb Parkway
  • Many trains would run through to/from Peachtree City or Newnan for direct airport service
• Ball Ground Branch:
  • More limited daily service due to slower line speed reducing utility outside rush hours
  • DMU equipment used for lower expected usage and high acceleration/deceleration
  • Most trains terminate at pocket platform at Marietta
  • Some rush hour trains can express/discharge only (Cumberland) to Atlanta
• Dallas/Villa Rica Line:
  • Very busy NS line - major capacity upgrades possibly required
  • Villa Rica additionally serves Amtrak's Crescent (new stop for that train)
  • Unsure on RoI of I-285 station, major infrastructure for minimal use?
  • All trains all stops
• Newnan/Peachtree City Line:
  • All trains all stops
  • Many trains would run through to/from Cartersville and Suwanee/Gainesville for direct airport service on those lines
• Griffin Line:
  • All trains all stops
  • Serves International Termina via shuttle or new Skytrain
• Jackson/Macon/Warner Robins Line:
  • Jackson trains are all stops
  • Express service Atlanta-Jackson-Macon-All stops to Warner Robins South
  • Some Warner Robins-Macon only trains

Very nice—and smart.

I’d add some tweaks, but really, this is great overall.

[Need4Camaro]

It definitely has a great deal of coverage and is a very nice plan. Some of those areas I question would see enough ridership to support the costs of operating the services (Mainly Gainesville, Athens and Canton area). Mainly because I don't think commuters that far out are really commuting into Downtown area but mainly around their local suburb, or another suburb... either way though it would be good to see something like this come to past.

At this point though I've pretty much given up hope at any notion of Atlanta doing anything productive with a train, pretty much on the same level as the conception of the outer perimeter.

[arjay57]

Great work, Matt!

[MattCW]

Note that I'm not arguing with the points brought up, just having a discussion.

Originally Posted by primaltech

Great work, Matt. Always appreciated. Some comments of mine:

Cartersville Line:

Maybe this line should run to Adairsville in Bartow County, since you're already entering Bartow. Or maybe it should run over to Rome, but I guess there's no rail corridor going that way. Or maybe Cartersville is I guess the best stopping point. Yeah.

When I first mapped this out in 2009, I had Acworth as my stopping point as I held a bit tighter to a 30-mile limit. What I don't mention or show on this map are regional corridors, of which an Atlanta-Chattanooga route would include Adairsville, Calhoun, Dalton, Ringgold, Chattanooga Airport and a new station underneath downtown Chattanooga. I also included a shuttle line between Rome and Cartersville roughly following an old railroad that largely followed the Etowah river to Kingston. If you look really hard, you can still make out the triangle of that junction immediately to the west of downtown Kingston. But with regional rail, I stick to the idea that the higher speed line only serves the core, and outermost station for each mode (so this line would serve downtown, 10th street, then no stops till Cartersville, if HRT is ever expanded to Cumberland, it could stop there too potentially).

Also, you can't use the Silver Comet approach thru Underwood Hills, that's probably not going to fly for a couple reasons. First because that's already planned for the Silver Comet mixed-use trail link to the Beltline. Second is NIMBY's. But good luck to you on that.

Why not use the CSX line that goes thru Tilford? Is that because you're hoping for MARTA Green Line to go that way? Seems like they could connect with a transfer station at Bolton, with new TOD and all that.

Back in 2009, that wasn't close to the case, and I figured following Tilford wouldn't make CSX happy with the congestion around there. With Tilford gone and Howell now ironically far more congested (I listen to CSX dispatch while driving, that yard takes up easily 80%+ of communications I hear), Tilford is once again the better route, but even still, I was envisioning this as a starter route with the final buildout being the 4-track elevated structure I mention, bypassing Tilford and Inman altogether.

I like the downtown approach underneath the CNN Center like that. That's a great idea!

I feel like both this line and the Ball Ground Branch should be DMU, and be schedule offset so as to have double frequency between Marietta and downtown. Like every 40 minutes a train to Kennesaw or Woodstock, but every 20 minutes a train to Smyrna since it's on both of those lines.

Same thing for all the other lines/branches that fork off. So in the inner metro there would be more of a metro-style frequency. Maybe you've planned for that.

So Ball Ground is really the only true branch, it's a low enough density line beyond Woodstock, and the line itself is curvy and slow enough that DMUs are all that make sense here, but the "mainline" from Acworth could easily support the high-capacity, high-density trains given the immense population even north of Marietta.

Villa Rica Line:

Should go to Bremen.

Good idea for new shared Amtrak stop somewhere on there.

Same as the Acworth line, I feel Bremen is better suited as a regional stop than a commuter stop.

The Dallas branch should go at least to Rockmart, or all the way to Rome. One of the lines should go to Rome.

Rome is pretty tricky, I mention a branch from a regional route up above, but really, I feel that any sort of Atlanta-Chattanooga (Chicago) HSR would stop at Rome and eliminate the need for slower rail to Rome. As for Rockmart (and Bremen) I'm fairly well traveled around the metro area and I've also based the termini on where "metro Atlanta feels like it stops." It's a kind of rough, unquantifiable metric I admit, but I hear people talking about Gainesville and Athens all the time, not so much Bremen and Rockmart.

Newnan Line:

Peachtree City branch, maybe go ahead and take that out to Senoia, in eastern Coweta County. That would serve more of bordering Fayette County, too.

Senoia isn't really big enough to be worth taking a high capacity line all the way there. Most of the development seems to between PTC and Senoia, and most people heading to Atlanta would probably travel past PTC anyways.

Gainesville Line:

Commuter rail trains on the Beltline? People are going to be cool with that? I mean, more power to you if you think this could happen.

It has to, Howell Junction is too congested, it is literally the only viable route into Atlanta from the northeast. Fortunately the beltline is wide enough to support full rail plus LRT, and the trail can be easily rerouted.

General thoughts:

Man, the Red Line extension to Windward would be have been the perfect compliment to this plan. Sigh.

You may have to keep within the 13-county ATL area, and then have regional trains that would go to Athens and such.

We'll never have any of these cool things because this is the stupidest metro on the planet. But I appreciate your efforts.

Yea, so the Cartersville line may have to terminate at Acworth and the Gwinnett lines stop at Buford and Lawrenceville, but that's still decent reach.

Originally Posted by primaltech

I mean, if you took Matt's map, shortened the lines a bit to just the 13 ATL counties, and made it a light rail system(with tracks next to the freight corridor, since FRA and non-FRA compliant can't share tracks)- then, it could definitely run on the Silver Comet and the Beltline, since they want LRT there.

That kind of defeats the entire purpose of CRT. In 2009, I estimated the cost of each line at full buildout to be $500 Million, at worst, the cost won't have gone up to more than a Billion per line. LRT up each corridor would easily be $6 Billion plus at the cheapest, and if you're doing that much anyways, just do HRT.

Originally Posted by samiwas1

Very nice...here are a few of my comments...

Definitely take the line which ends at PTC down to Senoia. I know a few people who live there and commute up every day, and they say a lot of people live there and work near the airport.

See above, I just don't see Senoia as being busy enough to justify extending the line from PTC.

The station and parking deck you have at 285 by the river, put here instead. There is space in this corner to put a large TOD and commuter deck.

Good idea, I never considered that.

The ATL-CMB line that splits just north of the river, cut that portion to the east, and stick with the line to the west through Tilford Yard, especially if there are no stations along there. That is the route for the Silver Comet extension.

See above, that was done back in 2009.

The Jimmy Carter parking deck is the location of a new townhome development.

Good to know, I shifted the deck to the SW side, looks like only one building is in the way.

I'd combine the Fairburn and Union City stops (only three miles apart) to a larger station at the intersection of 29 and 138.

I could go on a little more, but that's it for now.

As I said with my OP, the point was to serve both the downtowns and the P&Rs. Looking at the map, most people would be coming from either right around, or down 138 or Rivertown Rd. Keeping at largeish deck at Fairburn serves the downtown as well as providing a solid P&R. Union City though...I had never visited when I was first working on this line, but now that I've been through there...there really isn't much to Union City proper so that one might could go away in its entirety. No disrespect of course to the city.

Well, scratch that, as I was writing this post, I took a closer look at the map, there seems to be a nice little downtown south of there off Union St where the railroads really begin to diverge. So maybe Union City could get two stations, one for each line. Another of my criteria was to locate stations on as many lines as possible, such as choosing East Point since the PTC/Newnan lines and Griffin lines meet there.

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

It definitely has a great deal of coverage and is a very nice plan. Some of those areas I question would see enough ridership to support the costs of operating the services (Mainly Gainesville, Athens and Canton area). Mainly because I don't think commuters that far out are really commuting into Downtown area but mainly around their local suburb, or another suburb... either way though it would be good to see something like this come to past.

At this point though I've pretty much given up hope at any notion of Atlanta doing anything productive with a train, pretty much on the same level as the conception of the outer perimeter.

The three cities you mention are definitely still Atlanta-centric, and in the case of Canton, has many commuters into Marietta and Cumberland. Gainesville and Athens may stretch the definition of "commuter" rail a tad, but there is precedent. Montauk is 117 miles from New York and still sees 5-6 trains each way during the week. I haven't really addressed frequency, for all the "inner zone" stations (Suwanee, Lawrenceville Airport, and everything but Ball Ground) I imagine 20-30 minute headways at rush hour, 1hr-90min headways midday and late evening. Gainesville, Athens, and Ball Ground I would see roughly half frequency as the "core." So for instance Lawrenceville Airport might see trains to Atlanta at 6:30, 7, 7:20, 7:40, 8, 8:30, 9, 9:30, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 16:40, 17, 17:20, 17:40, 18, 18:30, 19, 20, 21:30, 22:30, 24:00. But Athens would only see trains to Atlanta at 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 20, 22. So LVA sees 26 trains per day, while Athens only sees 13.