CURBED ATLANTA: I live car-free in Atlanta—and I love it (Boston: 2013, neighborhood)

[evannole]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Not at all. Saving that money from a car to spend on Uber / Lyft when needed gives you way more flexibility and options to get around.

If you want more mobility on less budget, dropping the car is the way to go. Most younger folks I talk to do it by choice. They don't even have a driver's license.

I am glad that works for you and them. You must in travel in very different circles than me and most people I know. I with a lot of twenty-somethings who live within walking distance of MARTA and have access to a relatively brief (10 minute plus 10-20 minute wait time), free shuttle ride to the office to and from a MARTA station. A grand total of one of them actually does that on a regular basis and lives without a car. The rest of them are plenty happy to drive.

I agree that you can save money by not owning a car, if you don't need to cover large distances, on a regular basis, but don't agree with your assertion that not having a car provides you with "way more flexibility" or "more mobility." I can hop in my car anytime I like, back straight out of my basement garage, and go wherever I please. I don't have to wait for an Uber or Lyft (though I do choose to use them if I am going to a wine dinner or something). I can ride in my own vehicle that is not full of obnoxious air fresheners, and I can select my own music or other audio programming. I don't have to pay congestion pricing at peak demand hours. I drive electric and thus my cost of fuel is very low, and I never, ever have to stop for gas. My car is semi-autonomous on the highway, and that feature has greatly reduced the amount of stress I experience on my commute; within five years, I expect that this technology will be both much more advanced and far more common.

Yes, there's a price associated with this level of convenience, though I suspect that I, personally, would have to spend a lot more if I relied exclusively on a combination of Uber, Lyft and transit, which, in turn, couldn't hope to provide me with the level of convenience, flexibility and comfort that I have at my disposal. But if your lifestyle and working situation make this a better choice for you and many people you know, then that's great and I can both commend it and be happy for you.

[jsvh]

In most cities you spend more time walking to where you parked your car than you do to get an Uber.

In fact, I know people who have taken Uber to avoid walking all the way to where they parked.

I mean, there are just a lot of great places and situations where driving your car there is not a reasonable option. Being boxed into that is silly. Ride together with your friends. Go to the big sports event. Have some drinks. Go to that new show that doesn't have parking. Go to your friends place where you wouldn't want to park your car on the street even if it was available. So many situations where cars are more of a burden. And certainly more of cost.

I think it is more about the life you choose. Certain things become easier and less expensive with each option. If you are stuck in or prefer car-dependant suburbia built on laws that require things like spacing everything far apart and requiring lots of parking, you certainly will find a car the most appealing option by design.

But most places where people live in the world where that is not forced on them, car ownership is more of a burden. Just like keeping a horse around.

[evannole]

Yes, I agree - I wouldn't want a car in Paris, London, Amsterdam or Tokyo, but at this point, Atlanta and its transit infrastructure bear little to no resemblance to those places and their transit systems. You can live a car-free lifestyle in Atlanta, as you have demonstrated, but you have to actively build your life around that goal if you want to achieve it. Obviously your choice of neighborhoods for both abode and work is going to be somewhat limited, and if you are relying on transit, there's a good chance you'll need to allow for a longer commute than you would when driving. Many of us find those conditions too limiting. But if you can make it work, then cheers.

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by DreamerD

It sounds as if the author is trying to talk himself into it being worth it. His experiences sound dreadful.

That's what I got out of it. He sounds like those Crossfit people..."Yeah, brah...I totally crushed the WOD today, then my legs gave out and I fell down the stairs and puked all over myself. But bruh, I just feel totally ripped!"

Originally Posted by jsvh

Not at all. Saving that money from a car to spend on Uber / Lyft when needed gives you way more flexibility and options to get around. Of course it flips the math people used to car dependency think about. Where you might think driving around to strip malls in suburbia as basically free and going intown or to a game and having to pay $10+ for parking as expensive, suddenly you now just order on Amazon to save the $10 Uber ride and take a $2 Bird Scooter over meet a friend down the Beltline.

No one thinks driving costs less than going car free. No one.

If you want more mobility on less budget, dropping the car is the way to go.

I think you mean "the same options to get nearby places while also using the same option to get further away".

Most younger folks I talk to do it by choice. They don't even have a driver's license.

Most people you know are car free by choice? Really? Most?

Originally Posted by evannole

I am glad that works for you and them. You must in travel in very different circles than me and most people I know. I with a lot of twenty-somethings who live within walking distance of MARTA and have access to a relatively brief (10 minute plus 10-20 minute wait time), free shuttle ride to the office to and from a MARTA station. A grand total of one of them actually does that on a regular basis and lives without a car. The rest of them are plenty happy to drive.

Isn't it funny how he seems to know almost exclusively people who live total full-urban walkable lifestyles in Atlanta, when the number of people doing so is infinitesimal?

don't agree with your assertion that not having a car provides you with "way more flexibility" or "more mobility." I can hop in my car anytime I like, back straight out of my basement garage, and go wherever I please.

Yeah...you can call not owning a car cheaper, but you can't claim "more mobility". I can likely get to far more of this metro faster than someone using alternative methods in almost every case. That's the very definition of increased mobility.

Yes, there's a price associated with this level of convenience, though I suspect that I, personally, would have to spend a lot more if I relied exclusively on a combination of Uber, Lyft and transit, which, in turn, couldn't hope to provide me with the level of convenience, flexibility and comfort that I have at my disposal. But if your lifestyle and working situation make this a better choice for you and many people you know, then that's great and I can both commend it and be happy for you.

Yes. Driving is generally far more expensive. But as far as ease of getting places, sorry, but it wins hands down.

Originally Posted by jsvh

In most cities you spend more time walking to where you parked your car than you do to get an Uber.

Uh, that's not true.

In fact, I know people who have taken Uber to avoid walking all the way to where they parked.

I'm sure that happens all the time! My mind is changed!

I mean, there are just a lot of great places and situations where driving your car there is not a reasonable option.

Sure there are. And the opposite is also true. In other words, there are a million different situations and in some of them, using alternative methods is better, and for others, it's not. Alternative methods are not the best for all, or even most, situations.

Being boxed into that is silly. Ride together with your friends. Go to the big sports event. Have some drinks. Go to that new show that doesn't have parking. Go to your friends place where you wouldn't want to park your car on the street even if it was available.

I can do all of these things, while also owning a car. Literally every one of these. But...these situations are maybe 5-10% of my life (that's 18-36 days worth, BTW). For those 5-10%, I use alternative methods, because believe it or not...even with a car sitting in my driveway, I can still call an uber or walk to the nearby restaurants. For the other 90-95%, I use the much more convenient option.

So many situations where cars are more of a burden. And certainly more of cost.

Yes, more of a cost. But, the situations are few.

I think it is more about the life you choose. Certain things become easier and less expensive with each option. If you are stuck in or prefer car-dependant suburbia built on laws that require things like spacing everything far apart and requiring lots of parking, you certainly will find a car the most appealing option by design.

I live in the city. In city limits. I still find it vastly easier to get around by car to 95% of the places I would ever go. Here's the thing: you likely rarely leave your core bubble, so you have very little idea of what the rest of the city is like. It's wonderful, and I see much of it frequently...not just the places I can access in a five minute scooter ride or a ten minute walk from a MARTA station. So, yeah...if you choose to live life in a small footprint, it's more doable.

Literally the only burden to me is the expense. And I chose to pay that expense for the vast levels of convenience offered. So do millions of others. Your way of using half a dozen different methods to get anywhere is not generally desired by the public at large. It's a huge tradeoff just not seen as worth it by most. But at around $6000 per year per car, we're paying an average of $16.50 per day per car all-in on the car lifestyle (and that includes car payments for my wife's new car and inflated insurance).

[waronxmas]

Originally Posted by samiwas1

Bingo. I just don't understand these arguments. Taking 2-5 times as long to get places and having to put up with all the other people and general dirtiness just isn't my idea of "stress-free".

That's not really the argument I was making. Driving is more comfortable, but it comes with it's own stresses that transit does not. With transit you don't have to worry about idiot drivers (except when they don't yield to pedestrians), traffic, and (best of all) you can just zone out while you go to and from.

The last one is the real killer feature of transit. You can take time to read or tune out from a society that has deemed it healthy to pump information in to your skull 24/7. That's worth it's weight in gold IMHO.

[robertjhajek]

My wife and I share a car. I walk or bike or uber or marta or scooter anywhere I need to get to for a cheaper price than owning a car.

[Space_League]

I like to drive. It's about the sense of freedom for me and control. Even in Boston I kept my car, though sometimes I didn't use it more than once per week. Couldn't imagine trying it in Atlanta

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by Space_League

I like to drive. It's about the sense of freedom for me and control. Even in Boston I kept my car, though sometimes I didn't use it more than once per week. Couldn't imagine trying it in Atlanta

You should give it a shot. Imagine your commute being literally a stroll along the Beltline.

[Space_League]

Originally Posted by jsvh

You should give it a shot. Imagine your commute being literally a stroll along the Beltline.

Might be fine to get to work but not for getting out and seeing the area, especially as a new resident I want to be able to explore

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by Space_League

Might be fine to get to work but not for getting out and seeing the area, especially as a new resident I want to be able to explore

Walking the Beltline is probably the top recommendation people make to those new to the area.

You really should go explore it.