U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Georgia > Atlanta
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-27-2019, 06:18 AM
 
Location: Woodstock, GA
2,069 posts, read 3,501,830 times
Reputation: 2558

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
And a metro area that's about a third of the area. Yes, it is less dense, and everyone drives. There's very little walking or biking here. No train and few busses which are only used by a small subset of people. But, there is simply no traffic. I almost never have to wait through more than one traffic signal to get through an intersection. There's no gridlock. Most of the major roads aren't even that busy. There's not even backups in most of the city. It just works. It's because their road network is very well thought out and implemented.
It is well thought out and implemented for <2 million people. You put 6 million in Memphis and it will have all the same problems Atlanta has. My point is that it is much easier to plan for and fund road infrastructure for 1.3 million than it is for 6 million.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-27-2019, 06:27 AM
 
29,345 posts, read 26,300,848 times
Reputation: 10262
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
And being local to their job is well down the list of priorities. Its the house, the price of the house, schools, crime. People do want a reasonable commute, but Forsyth would still be a tiny rural county if being close to jobs was the top priority.
That is very true. People will gladly drive a little further if they're getting the house, schools, elbow room, and other amenities that they want.

Another factor to consider is that our dispersed patterns of commuting have been hugely impacted the decision of employers to decentralize. Jobs are all over the place and living in the suburbs may well put you closer to work.

And it's often forgotten that commuting only accounts for about 20% of the driving that is done. Roads are critical for so many other things as well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-27-2019, 09:25 AM
Status: "Apparently not a person." (set 22 days ago)
 
5,074 posts, read 3,299,861 times
Reputation: 3368
Quote:
Originally Posted by billl View Post
It is well thought out and implemented for <2 million people. You put 6 million in Memphis and it will have all the same problems Atlanta has. My point is that it is much easier to plan for and fund road infrastructure for 1.3 million than it is for 6 million.
Yes..if you put six million people in 1/3 the area, of course. No...Atlanta's road network is crap. The same problems would not happen because there are so many alternatives. Is Poplar busy? Go over to Walnut Grove. Is that busy too? Go over to Summer. There's a long-range 4-lane arterial (with turn lanes) north/south and east/west, parallel about every half mile throughout the city. The roads are currently practically empty...they could take many times more people before they started looking like Atlanta's. To say that Atlanta's road system is comparable and just overwhelmed is BS.

Atlanta suffers from bad roads, not too many people.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-27-2019, 09:37 AM
 
2,021 posts, read 816,961 times
Reputation: 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by billl View Post
It is well thought out and implemented for <2 million people. You put 6 million in Memphis and it will have all the same problems Atlanta has. My point is that it is much easier to plan for and fund road infrastructure for 1.3 million than it is for 6 million.
Sorry but I greatly disagree with this.

Most of Atlanta's is very sprawled out, while Memphis is less dense than Atlanta near the core areas, Atlanta becomes exponentially less dense the further away from the core until you get to several rural communities that make up the suburbs of the metro as a whole.

Taking this into account, Atlanta actually has less roadway servicing the comparable populations than even Memphis.

The issue with Atlanta's road infrastructure has little to do with the population encompassing the metro but more to do with planning, design, foresight and Nimbys. There are several comparably sized, and larger metros that have a much more redundant road network than what is seen in Atlanta.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-27-2019, 03:01 PM
bu2
 
9,970 posts, read 6,425,543 times
Reputation: 4150
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
To a point. But you guys act like widening any road, any where, at any time, is a completely useless project that would have no benefit and only "encourage sprawl".

I've been driving around Memphis this weekend (and every time I come here...it's my hometown) and marveling at how there is just simply very little traffic. They built their road network to handle it, unlike Atlanta.
Exactly.

And it doesn't make sense to widen the Connector or North 285 with general purpose lanes. But there are still places where it makes sense. And HOT lanes make sense in those corridors to provide an express alternative.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-27-2019, 03:04 PM
bu2
 
9,970 posts, read 6,425,543 times
Reputation: 4150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4Camaro View Post
Sorry but I greatly disagree with this.

Most of Atlanta's is very sprawled out, while Memphis is less dense than Atlanta near the core areas, Atlanta becomes exponentially less dense the further away from the core until you get to several rural communities that make up the suburbs of the metro as a whole.

Taking this into account, Atlanta actually has less roadway servicing the comparable populations than even Memphis.

The issue with Atlanta's road infrastructure has little to do with the population encompassing the metro but more to do with planning, design, foresight and Nimbys. There are several comparably sized, and larger metros that have a much more redundant road network than what is seen in Atlanta.
Pretty much every other major metro has a better road network than in Atlanta, especially on arterial roads. Perhaps Boston is as bad, but Boston does have an extra loop.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-27-2019, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,286 posts, read 3,503,555 times
Reputation: 4463
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
Pretty much every other major metro has a better road network than in Atlanta, especially on arterial roads. Perhaps Boston is as bad, but Boston does have an extra loop.
There's no perhaps about it, Boston is worse. I can't even imagine what it would be like if they didn't have trains. And 495 is much more a regional connector than a bypass. There's not much through-traffic from Rhode Island to New Hampshire & Maine.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-27-2019, 04:22 PM
 
2,021 posts, read 816,961 times
Reputation: 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
Exactly.

And it doesn't make sense to widen the Connector or North 285 with general purpose lanes. But there are still places where it makes sense. And HOT lanes make sense in those corridors to provide an express alternative.
My thing about the HOT lanes specifically is that for the dollar amount, the impact will overall be negligible, we are fighting decades and decades of infrastructural neglect. The only thing that will really help I-285 is a outer bypass that is strictly controlled in zoning and exits as not to cause further sprawl while providing thru traffic a way around Atlanta without getting too close to the core... but in reality unless something drastic happens, it isnt going to happen... MAYBE...and I mean just MAYBE we will eventually see another highway built out west to form a crescent around Atlanta for trucks and it would be built pretty far out too... otherwise Atlanta's only hope at this point is promoting transit ridership. Given they are unable to FEASIBLY or REALISTICALLY design the infrastructure needed, the next solution is to move people in other ways outside of driving.

I get that you want to see a highway system like DFW in Atlanta but I'm looking at this realistically, it just isnt going to happen. Too many people will oppose it, too much property would have to be confiscated and in general the mindset for that kind of system just isnt in this region.

You see the HOT lanes may help I-285 slightly but what about the rest of the metro or what happens when you get off I-285, or if you never use it to begin with. What I'm trying to get at is, these managed lanes on solve a small scope of issues and are in no way close to a fix especially without the lack of feasible alternatives and this is why I feel MARTA should be prioritized, to serve as a feasible means of commuting outside of driving.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-27-2019, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Woodstock, GA
2,069 posts, read 3,501,830 times
Reputation: 2558
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
Yes..if you put six million people in 1/3 the area, of course. No...Atlanta's road network is crap.
No disagreement here. Atlanta lost that battle decades ago. Now it's basically too late to add roads inside the perimeter, or even to widen what's there. Just read the arguments in this forum that pop up every time there's talk of adding more freeways ITP. Or even OTP for that matter.

But it is still nonsensical to compare the 9th largest metro area with one that's ranked in the 40s. The urban planning problems are significantly different. If Memphis metro grew to 6 million would its roads be better? Likely, yes. But there will still be problems, and unless the local governments have the courage to work together to maintain and extend the grid that's already been started, it will turn in to a disaster almost as bad as Atlanta.

Quote:
Atlanta suffers from bad roads, not too many people.
Atlanta suffers from both, along with a number of cultural problems that have prevented co-operation between the cities.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-28-2019, 06:34 AM
 
1,083 posts, read 983,138 times
Reputation: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
Yes..if you put six million people in 1/3 the area, of course. No...Atlanta's road network is crap. The same problems would not happen because there are so many alternatives. Is Poplar busy? Go over to Walnut Grove. Is that busy too? Go over to Summer. There's a long-range 4-lane arterial (with turn lanes) north/south and east/west, parallel about every half mile throughout the city. The roads are currently practically empty...they could take many times more people before they started looking like Atlanta's. To say that Atlanta's road system is comparable and just overwhelmed is BS.

Atlanta suffers from bad roads, not too many people.
I can agree with this^^^. Does a fast growing population make things worse? Sure, but that's not the problem. Waiting through 2-3 iterations of a stoplight on a Saturday because there is only one lane instead of two is the problem. And if you go to some of the "newer" areas of the metro, they generally didn't learn from that mistake (Canton, Holly Springs, Locust Grove, etc.). Seemingly these areas would have had the time to plan well and not repeat Atlanta's mistakes, but I see the same issues there.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Georgia > Atlanta
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top