U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Georgia > Atlanta
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-09-2019, 04:18 PM
 
Location: North Atlanta
5,434 posts, read 3,834,993 times
Reputation: 2974

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by brown_dog_us View Post
Most people commute by car and if you force them onto mass transit the jobs will move to where they can commute. Adding lanes isn't great, but it's the only real world solution they have. The great solutions needed to happen 20+ years ago, but the state didn't widen/redesign the highways and metro Atlanta didn't build rail to Windward. We're stuck.

MARTA rail expansion isn't going to happen outside of the City of Atlanta, bus ridership is falling dramatically, and the costs for new bus only lanes is equal to the cost of toll lanes. At least the toll lanes will generate money to payback the costs.
These toll lanes will not and won’t be designed to recoup their costs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-10-2019, 11:08 AM
 
2,097 posts, read 1,833,962 times
Reputation: 1977
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulch View Post
These toll lanes will not and won’t be designed to recoup their costs.
You are right. I should have said the toll lanes would recoup more of the costs than mass transit fares.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-10-2019, 11:18 AM
bu2
 
9,997 posts, read 6,434,803 times
Reputation: 4156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4Camaro View Post
Yeah but will the toll lanes really do any better? I'm looking at a grand scope beyond just this decade. Sure it will solve a 'now' problem. But after a decade what are they going to do when that area is fully maxed out, MARTA rail blocked out and no where to increase road capacity?

If that area wasn't so developed and more roads could be implemented (and it isnt just the need for more roads but more importantly better designs in the aspect of thru arteries rather than roads that end every 4 blocks) .. thing is they are already nearly at a point where that will be impossible. So even if they widen 400 what's going to happen after that? That wont be enough. Transit in America in general has to be artificially stimulated to succeed. That means providing those routes then promoting ridership over arteries that are filled to capacity by making it more viable and attractive than driving such as busses that have right of way over signalized intersections, ect. Atlantas infrastructure cannot handle the road capacity of a metro wanting to go 7 - 8 + million without a sophisticated transit system. That's asking for a disaster even if they threw every dime they had at the roads...the very core of which they are designed makes that impractical. They NEED rail service too.
There is tons of vacant land for improving roads in North Fulton.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-10-2019, 11:47 AM
 
Location: North Atlanta
5,434 posts, read 3,834,993 times
Reputation: 2974
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
There is tons of vacant land for improving roads in North Fulton.
Where?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-10-2019, 12:06 PM
 
2,097 posts, read 1,833,962 times
Reputation: 1977
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulch View Post
Where?
400 and the bigger surface streets generally have room. On 400 it would mean removing a lot of trees. The problem is widening one road just means the next one down the commute gets worse.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-10-2019, 04:06 PM
bu2
 
9,997 posts, read 6,434,803 times
Reputation: 4156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulch View Post
Where?
All over Roswell, Alpharetta and Milton.

Atlanta MSA is not nearly as densely developed as other metros outside the southeast. Even newer cities like Houston, Dallas and Phoenix.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 07:24 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
23,393 posts, read 17,559,252 times
Reputation: 5423
Quote:
Originally Posted by brown_dog_us View Post
From midtown to Windward is where the jobs are, and the State has to start improving access to the area or growth will come to a halt. Mass transit sounds great but it won't serve that area without a massive influx of money that doesn't exist. Also, mass transit ridership numbers are in a free fall.
There are still tens of thousands of jobs in Downtown. Not to mention Clifton Corridor and Airport.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brown_dog_us View Post
Most people commute by car and if you force them onto mass transit the jobs will move to where they can commute. Adding lanes isn't great, but it's the only real world solution they have. The great solutions needed to happen 20+ years ago, but the state didn't widen/redesign the highways and metro Atlanta didn't build rail to Windward. We're stuck.

MARTA rail expansion isn't going to happen outside of the City of Atlanta, bus ridership is falling dramatically, and the costs for new bus only lanes is equal to the cost of toll lanes. At least the toll lanes will generate money to payback the costs.
Bus ridership is falling because the bus speeds have dropped due to increased traffic congestion.
Running BRT in all the Express lanes would get metro Atlanta a quick and efficient transit network using existing and planned toll lanes. It is a huge mistake not to include BRT in these Express Lane projects.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 12:18 PM
bu2
 
9,997 posts, read 6,434,803 times
Reputation: 4156
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
There are still tens of thousands of jobs in Downtown. Not to mention Clifton Corridor and Airport.


Bus ridership is falling because the bus speeds have dropped due to increased traffic congestion.
Running BRT in all the Express lanes would get metro Atlanta a quick and efficient transit network using existing and planned toll lanes. It is a huge mistake not to include BRT in these Express Lane projects.
Mass transit ridership is falling all over the country. Seattle (who is spending massively) and Houston (who dramatically redesigned and increased frequency of bus routes) are the only exceptions.

Driving is vastly faster and more convenient for most people. As people can afford cars, except for a handful of cities, they choose driving. That is the #1 reason people quit using mass transit. They bought a car.

Outside of those few cities (NY, Boston, Philly, DC, Chicago, SF https://www.newgeography.com/content...-legacy-cities), transit needs to be fast. BRT can provide that in certain corridors, but express buses are a better choice in less dense areas as they have fewer stops. They can stop once to connect to a rail or BRT for a transfer and not stop 5-10 times on the way downtown (or Buckhead or Perimeter Mall). That one stop for a transfer is why I wish MARTA would be extended from Indian Creek down 285 to near the I-20 intersection. The plan on the map requires 2 transfers to get to the rail and that just kills discretionary ridership.

Last edited by bu2; Today at 12:26 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Kirkwood
23,393 posts, read 17,559,252 times
Reputation: 5423
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
Mass transit ridership is falling all over the country. Seattle (who is spending massively) and Houston (who dramatically redesigned and increased frequency of bus routes) are the only exceptions.

Driving is vastly faster and more convenient for most people. As people can afford cars, except for a handful of cities, they choose driving. That is the #1 reason people quit using mass transit. They bought a car.

Outside of those few cities (NY, Boston, Philly, DC, Chicago, SF https://www.newgeography.com/content...-legacy-cities), transit needs to be fast. BRT can provide that in certain corridors, but express buses are a better choice in less dense areas as they have fewer stops. They can stop once to connect to a rail or BRT for a transfer and not stop 5-10 times on the way downtown (or Buckhead or Perimeter Mall). That one stop for a transfer is why I wish MARTA would be extended from Indian Creek down 285 to near the I-20 intersection. The plan on the map requires 2 transfers to get to the rail and that just kills discretionary ridership.
I never said it should one vs the other, both can use the Express lane system. I am sure the Xpress buses will continue to serve P&R lots along 400 after the Express Lanes are built and MARTA BRT is using them. But on corridors like 400 &-285 operating BRT makes sense to move people in & out. Adding BRT to the I-285 Express Lanes would bring a efficient transit to communities along it; Smyrna, Vinings, Cumberland, Sandy Springs, Dunwoody, Brookhaven, Doraville, Northlake, Tucker, Clarkston, etc. These communities need more than just peak-hour, one way Express Bus service. Especially since I-285 Express Lane will be two-way.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 02:00 PM
bu2
 
9,997 posts, read 6,434,803 times
Reputation: 4156
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
I never said it should one vs the other, both can use the Express lane system. I am sure the Xpress buses will continue to serve P&R lots along 400 after the Express Lanes are built and MARTA BRT is using them. But on corridors like 400 &-285 operating BRT makes sense to move people in & out. Adding BRT to the I-285 Express Lanes would bring a efficient transit to communities along it; Smyrna, Vinings, Cumberland, Sandy Springs, Dunwoody, Brookhaven, Doraville, Northlake, Tucker, Clarkston, etc. These communities need more than just peak-hour, one way Express Bus service. Especially since I-285 Express Lane will be two-way.
285 is a place where BRT would seem to make sense. Its not as much of a point to point corridor where you have a mass of origins or destinations.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Georgia > Atlanta
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top