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Old 07-05-2019, 04:26 PM
 
4,406 posts, read 4,060,310 times
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As someone in IT who works in North Fulton, I can explain why some positions dont get filled.


1. The commute. Unless you live in N Fulton, its hell commuting there from the South , West or Eastern side of town, if you have a a 8-5/9-6 shift. The 1.5-2hr commutes get old very quick.


2. Contractor vs Full Time. Trying to hire everyone as a contractor with expensive benefits, which are typically never treated as well as internal employees. Whats 20-30hr when your benefits are $500-1000 a month and no vacation days and have to work the holidays.


3. The pay. While the pay can be good, most jobs are typically the 35-50K range, $55-65K+ if you have a bit more skills or education, so some folks will move elsewhere for better pay, but dont realize they have now a greater cost of living to pay for as well. The other side goes back to point1, is the pay worth having zero life and 304hrs of commuting daily or can the pay offset the premium to live in N Fulton.


4. Unrealistic expectations. Some jobs would like you to be certified in Storage, Servers, Networking and the Cloud, and if one were actually certified or experts in all that, they should be paid $150K for all those skills, but they will be like $60K and must be available 24/7 365.
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Old 07-05-2019, 05:29 PM
 
3,141 posts, read 1,450,449 times
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Originally Posted by markjames68 View Post
I never said it was "too expensive". My inference was that it wasn't worth it and there are many costs that smaller companies won't want to bear.

I've run divisions of $4B+ software companies, and ran $25M+ companies outright. This is my business.

I've been to China and to India many times over the past 20 years and I've spoken with/worked with many firms globally including all the Indian Service Providers. I've also experienced L-visas where you do an intracompany transferee (another way around the problem.)

If a company has grunt work programming to be done, and they are big, then yes, it can still be financially feasible to "deal in bulk" with H-1B programmers. But based upon my experience (according to me) you don't want imported Indians doing work that requires a ton of creative latitude. A lot of this has to do with power distance and social hierarchy. It doesn't have anything to do intelligence or desire to work. I've found that once in the US for a number of years Indian workers become Americanized and work just as well with creative challenges.

My experience with Chinese workers is that they are better with creative challenges, but language is a much bigger barrier. The other problem is that they have a tendency to steal intellectual property and use it "back home" themselves. I'm not saying this anecdotally BTW, I have seen it personally happen.

A small company has to open up a position, and then hire attorneys to handle all of the details. They have to post the position publicly (with salary too FYI), ensure no Americans apply, and then handle all of the travel and visa costs which aren't trivial. In order to get a labor certification you also have to prove that no American can do the job (which usually is fairly easy to get around in tech, just make it pretty narrow.) A small company often has a single HR person who has no experience in visa work. Even if they go through the process there's no guarantee the worker will be a "fit" culturally, and you're not going to fly in a bunch for interviews. I've heard of cases where it was done via Skype and technical interviews were faked (people out of view of the camera providing answers, etc.) A lot of risk associated with hiring like this especially when it's more culturally acceptable to "fudge" in order to get ahead.

The other major issue since the days when I got visas was the quota filling up. Back then a quota might NEVER fill up, meaning you could apply in August or September and still get it filled (quotas follow the government calendar starting on October 1st.)

Nowadays the quota fills up in days, meaning once done, you have to wait a year before approaching this again. I believe there's a cap override lottery for another group, but that wouldn't apply to everyone.

Also, as mentioned, there's another away around this which is to hire Wipro, Infosys, etc. and they handle the visas and visa transfers. I believe Disney did something like that when outsourcing their IT group in Orlando. From a company perspective it's generally smarter unless you're very big because if the person doesn't work out you can get another without going through all of the hassle.

So....what have you heard?

A lot of Americans have lamented that they have had to go abroad to train people how to do their work knowing that their job would be gone. I've also read stories where people from India came and the US workers had to teach them their job knowing that it was part of some severance package and so a must. I personally haven't been affected because I haven't worked in the field but I do empathize. I also hear workers are being given contractor positions versus employee and that these positions don't pay well. I don't remember who but a post I was reading the person was working around 70 hours a week or something. I'm not sure how common that is but with the amount of contractor work, I wouldn't be surprised if a noticeable amount of people are having to work this. It's a mixture of things really. People from Atlanta have had to move elsewhere after many years of being in and out of work and they had experience.

I know others who are in tech and they seem to be doing pretty well. Does tech have a presence in Atlanta? Yes. Is it the hype people make it seem? It doesn't appear so. Companies need to be willing to train. Companies need to be willing to invest in their workers. They used to do this once upon a time. I think a lot more people would have compassion if they were being affected.
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Old 07-05-2019, 05:47 PM
 
6,258 posts, read 3,451,115 times
Reputation: 5697
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamerD View Post
A lot of Americans have lamented that they have had to go abroad to train people how to do their work knowing that their job would be gone. I've also read stories where people from India came and the US workers had to teach them their job knowing that it was part of some severance package and so a must. I personally haven't been affected because I haven't worked in the field but I do empathize. I also hear workers are being given contractor positions versus employee and that these positions don't pay well. I don't remember who but a post I was reading the person was working around 70 hours a week or something. I'm not sure how common that is but with the amount of contractor work, I wouldn't be surprised if a noticeable amount of people are having to work this. It's a mixture of things really. People from Atlanta have had to move elsewhere after many years of being in and out of work and they had experience.

I know others who are in tech and they seem to be doing pretty well. Does tech have a presence in Atlanta? Yes. Is it the hype people make it seem? It doesn't appear so. Companies need to be willing to train. Companies need to be willing to invest in their workers. They used to do this once upon a time. I think a lot more people would have compassion if they were being affected.
Ok, I see where you are coming from. The stories you read are true, but not universal.

Many of the jobs being offshored or outsourced are because they CAN be. I’m not passing judgement on the suitability or doing so (I’ve seen them moved to India and years later moved back due to major customer satisfaction issues) but the fact is they are portable jobs. Someone monitoring a network, for example, or doing internal Windows helpdesk work. Either can be offshored or in some cases also partially automated.

I don’t see the same kind of thing happening with IT jobs that have either a customer-facing or revenue generating focus. For example, a developer who architects database systems by working directly with clients.

The IT job market in Alpharetta through Atlanta proper is very strong right now, so talent will have the opportunity to job hop if a better offer comes along. But talent is fickle - relevant skills and experience is needed. But if a company wants to pay $50K for a $90K job they will either get mediocre or inexperienced candidates, or the position won’t be filled. That’s the nature of a market economy.
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Old 07-05-2019, 05:50 PM
 
6,258 posts, read 3,451,115 times
Reputation: 5697
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
As someone in IT who works in North Fulton, I can explain why some positions dont get filled.


1. The commute. Unless you live in N Fulton, its hell commuting there from the South , West or Eastern side of town, if you have a a 8-5/9-6 shift. The 1.5-2hr commutes get old very quick.


2. Contractor vs Full Time. Trying to hire everyone as a contractor with expensive benefits, which are typically never treated as well as internal employees. Whats 20-30hr when your benefits are $500-1000 a month and no vacation days and have to work the holidays.


3. The pay. While the pay can be good, most jobs are typically the 35-50K range, $55-65K+ if you have a bit more skills or education, so some folks will move elsewhere for better pay, but dont realize they have now a greater cost of living to pay for as well. The other side goes back to point1, is the pay worth having zero life and 304hrs of commuting daily or can the pay offset the premium to live in N Fulton.


4. Unrealistic expectations. Some jobs would like you to be certified in Storage, Servers, Networking and the Cloud, and if one were actually certified or experts in all that, they should be paid $150K for all those skills, but they will be like $60K and must be available 24/7 365.
Agree 100%. Your last point makes me laugh/cringe because it’s so true - they want a jack of all trades who is certified in everything yet won’t pay to maintain that certification...
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