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Old 07-19-2019, 10:07 AM
 
2,154 posts, read 860,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craziaskowboi View Post
After this, the next order of business should be extending Sugarloaf Parkway north from GA 316 to the Mall of Georgia, and building more interchanges on GA 316 between Lawrenceville and Winder.
In a way I cant help but feel much of Sugarloaf Pkwy 's freeway section for the most part feels like a privatized road as even when connected to Mall of GA, wont really service many areas commuters are commuting to and from. I'm guessing it will help those in Lawrenceville enter and exit Mall of GA area.

I personally think they should just toll GA-316 to get it finished faster and perform the same thing they did on Hwy 99 in Houston by making the exits / entrances free and tolling the overpasses/underpasses so you can still use GA-316 for free but you will have to exit and reenter at every interchange.
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Old 07-19-2019, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Georgia
5,263 posts, read 4,305,039 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4Camaro View Post
In a way I cant help but feel much of Sugarloaf Pkwy 's freeway section for the most part feels like a privatized road as even when connected to Mall of GA, wont really service many areas commuters are commuting to and from. I'm guessing it will help those in Lawrenceville enter and exit Mall of GA area.

I personally think they should just toll GA-316 to get it finished faster and perform the same thing they did on Hwy 99 in Houston by making the exits / entrances free and tolling the overpasses/underpasses so you can still use GA-316 for free but you will have to exit and reenter at every interchange.
Tolling is not a bad idea but I disagree with your planned arrangements of the toll booths (haha). Doesn't GADOT already have most of the right-of-way to extend Sugarloaf Parkway to 85?
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Old 07-19-2019, 01:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toll_booth View Post
Tolling is not a bad idea but I disagree with your planned arrangements of the toll booths (haha). Doesn't GADOT already have most of the right-of-way to extend Sugarloaf Parkway to 85?
Gwinnett DOT technically does. I dont think GDOT is involved in the Sugarloaf Pkwy extension. I believe that segment was purchased by Gwinnett in the 90's during the conception and cancellation of the proposed Northern Arc and the Sugarloaf Pkwy extension is the route it would have taken through Gwinnett. The Sugarloaf Pkwy extension between GA-316 and Peachtree Industrial Blvd is going to be tolled however, unlike the section between GA-20 and GA-316, mainly to cover the construction costs, not ROW acquisition.

The reason I suggested the tolling method for GA-316 to be on the over/under passes instead of the offramps is because in Georgia it is now illegal to take existing free state roads and toll them. This law passing is what killed the initial proposal to toll GA-316. The I-85 HOT lanes (converted from the free HOV lanes) were the last of it's kind to be converted and tolled, this is why they have to build new lanes for the new HOT projects making it quantum times more expensive. Another issue is that there was severe lashback from locals who commuted on that road to go to UGA stating the $10 one way toll would make it impossible to make the commute. This means of tolling makes the toll an optional toll rather than a mandatory toll, with the exception that those who do not pay will have a longer drive by taking every off / onramp. It sounds cumbersome and awkward but it seems to work pretty decently on TX99
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Old 07-19-2019, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Kirkwood
23,476 posts, read 17,645,124 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4Camaro View Post
The reason I suggested the tolling method for GA-316 to be on the over/under passes instead of the offramps is because in Georgia it is now illegal to take existing free state roads and toll them. This law passing is what killed the initial proposal to toll GA-316. The I-85 HOT lanes (converted from the free HOV lanes) were the last of it's kind to be converted and tolled, this is why they have to build new lanes for the new HOT projects making it quantum times more expensive.
So ITP HOV Lanes will not be converted to HOT lanes?
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Old 07-19-2019, 02:21 PM
 
2,154 posts, read 860,610 times
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Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
So ITP HOV Lanes will not be converted to HOT lanes?
Not sure TBH. From the HOT plans I have seen they are seemingly only focused OTP. If they did the ITP lanes they would have to build new lanes however and possibly return the HOV lane to a GP lane or better yet a BRT.
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Old 07-19-2019, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Vinings
6,367 posts, read 3,449,805 times
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Yeah I don't understand why they don't convert the old HOV lanes to Peach Pass. At least make it one consistent system everywhere across the metro.

I think I heard at one point that they plan to eventually.
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Old 07-21-2019, 10:06 AM
bu2
 
10,109 posts, read 6,491,826 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4Camaro View Post
I personally think that interchange is needed, largely due to the presence of Mall of GA and GA-20 being a major (and overloaded) artery servicing pretty much the entire north metro with alot of cross commuting traffic forced to funnel through the commercial district of Mall of GA.

That will give alternative means of reaching Mall of GA other than GA-20 and will also give locals in Lawrenceville (which is technically east of I-85 at this point) a means of reaching Old Peachtree Rd and the residential neighborhoods in that area without getting off at GA-20.

One should also note that while this interchange has been in the books for several years now, I believe its plans were mainly only conceived to assist GA-20. If a tolled and zone controlled outer perimeter were to be designed it most likely would have avoided commercial districts like this (assuming they designed it as a true bypass and not as a engine to accelerate development).. assuming that is true and it avoided development there would likely be no need for additional interchanges such as the one seen here.

Looking at the reality of the matter that area was severely under planned when it came to the conception of that Mall as there is only one way in and one way out unless you're local to it... so to me it is needed at this point.


&


Something I have been finding myself wondering lately is what would happen if Houston or DFW had comparable geographic features as seen in foothills of the Blue Ridge area...and I'm beginning to believe the same thing would happen as seen in Atlanta's north metro. I believe part of what makes Texas so capable of building out so many highways is that there isnt much in the way in comparison to North Georgia to detur freeway construction. They definitely also have NIMBYism but we are talking different levels when comparing them to the more open and flat areas of Texas to the wooded and environmentally sensitive areas of the Blueridge, and infact I actually would not be surprised if the lash back in Texas might even be greater than Atlanta if the area was the only one of its type in the state.

The reason being is Austin's western suburbs is a fairly scenic area... they built 3/4ths of a bypass but even with the Texan mindset they refuse to touch that area and infact many highway projects in Austin were canceled or postponed such as 45 in the southern belt of Austin which faced several lawsuits and was only recently conceived after delivering it without access roads, as a result, it looks more like Ronald Reagan Pkwy (in terms of size) than a super sized Texan Freeway...

So I am not sure that Texas is really all about paving their way to oblivion but more so that there is a tremendous geographical difference between Texas and Georgia that severely effects the political decisions that can and cannot pass in terms of these roads.
Austin said the same thing in the 70s about east of Austin being environmentally sensitive. Now its coated with toll roads. And in the hilly south, they have extended the MoPac freeway to the south, built loop 45 Southwest, built 71 across the southside as a freeway and now are working on 290 at 71. Its got nothing to do with geography. As for 45 across the Colorado River, that is very expensive and would go through very expensive property. So you have well to do NIMBY teaming up with those who are environmentally conscious (of which in liberal Austin, there are more than in most of Texas-or Georgia for that matter).

Here its a case of established communities who don't want change. These areas weren't founded as suburbs but may be as old as Atlanta. Many people up there wouldn't benefit from these roads. Much like many people who oppose transit, they aren't in favor of using their tax dollars for something that would infringe on them and offer no benefit. And Georgia has a really strong NIMBY component and little leadership on issues. The local and state leadership lead by poll.

North Carolina has a similar geography and is building lots of roads.
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Old 07-21-2019, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Georgia
5,263 posts, read 4,305,039 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
Austin said the same thing in the 70s about east of Austin being environmentally sensitive. Now its coated with toll roads. And in the hilly south, they have extended the MoPac freeway to the south, built loop 45 Southwest, built 71 across the southside as a freeway and now are working on 290 at 71. Its got nothing to do with geography. As for 45 across the Colorado River, that is very expensive and would go through very expensive property. So you have well to do NIMBY teaming up with those who are environmentally conscious (of which in liberal Austin, there are more than in most of Texas-or Georgia for that matter).

Here its a case of established communities who don't want change. These areas weren't founded as suburbs but may be as old as Atlanta. Many people up there wouldn't benefit from these roads. Much like many people who oppose transit, they aren't in favor of using their tax dollars for something that would infringe on them and offer no benefit. And Georgia has a really strong NIMBY component and little leadership on issues. The local and state leadership lead by poll.

North Carolina has a similar geography and is building lots of roads.
Austin is much flatter and much less treed than we are.
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Old 07-21-2019, 11:14 AM
bu2
 
10,109 posts, read 6,491,826 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toll_booth View Post
Austin is much flatter and much less treed than we are.
Fewer trees yes, but the southwest part of Austin that Camaro and I are talking about is perhaps even more hilly than Atlanta. Its where the Texas "Hill Country" starts. So its a relevant comparison.
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Old 07-21-2019, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,322 posts, read 3,538,978 times
Reputation: 4535
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
Austin said the same thing in the 70s about east of Austin being environmentally sensitive. Now its coated with toll roads. And in the hilly south, they have extended the MoPac freeway to the south, built loop 45 Southwest, built 71 across the southside as a freeway and now are working on 290 at 71. Its got nothing to do with geography. As for 45 across the Colorado River, that is very expensive and would go through very expensive property. So you have well to do NIMBY teaming up with those who are environmentally conscious (of which in liberal Austin, there are more than in most of Texas-or Georgia for that matter).

Here its a case of established communities who don't want change. These areas weren't founded as suburbs but may be as old as Atlanta. Many people up there wouldn't benefit from these roads. Much like many people who oppose transit, they aren't in favor of using their tax dollars for something that would infringe on them and offer no benefit. And Georgia has a really strong NIMBY component and little leadership on issues. The local and state leadership lead by poll.

North Carolina has a similar geography and is building lots of roads.
Is this a joke? You can't compare South Austin to the foothills of North Georgia, that's ridiculous. And don't bet on them having more NIMBY's either, as you would lose that bet badly.

Your portrayal of the communities up there as being closed off to change is wrong as well. What part of not wanting a freeway ripping through the forests, valleys and foothills and creating massive sprawl around the interchanges do you not understand? You continue to push Texas remedies onto Atlanta and Georgia that will never fly here, and you clearly don't understand the mindset here. We have no appetite for additional Freeways, especially north of Atlanta.

And no, North Carolina is NOT building roads in similar areas. They wouldn't stand for it either.
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