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Old 08-18-2019, 01:46 PM
 
10,739 posts, read 7,622,011 times
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Let me break it down so we can discuss exactly what the issue is. Here is what I am proposing:

A. A new class of "minimum security" jails / prisons that would cater to non-violent offenders and offer increased access to mental health and support services in addition to food, water, shelter, and healthcare.

B. The ability for anyone, by choice, to stay at that facility and get access to said food, water, shelter, healthcare, and services.

C. Legalize private / non-profit shelters everywhere.

D. Review and potentially update laws on trespassing, loitering, etc.

E. Enforcing laws on trespassing, loitering, etc.

F. Shot on sight anyone labeled as "homeless" by anyone else (this is a joke).

So what is so controversial with what I am proposing? I feel like A, B, C, and E should be broadly supported. Does anyone disagree with those items? If so, please elaborate.

If there is a consensus around all those items then I am mostly interested in discussing and coming to a consensus regarding item "D". How should the laws handle various situations those we often arbitrary label as "homeless" often find themselves in? We seem to have a consensus that trespassing on private property is a crime that warrant people being removed. At what point should that happen on public property?
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Old 08-18-2019, 01:51 PM
bu2
 
10,221 posts, read 6,565,249 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Let me break it down so we can discuss exactly what the issue is. Here is what I am proposing:

A. A new class of "minimum security" jails / prisons that would cater to non-violent offenders and offer increased access to mental health and support services in addition to food, water, shelter, and healthcare.

B. The ability for anyone, by choice, to stay at that facility and get access to said food, water, shelter, healthcare, and services.

C. Legalize private / non-profit shelters everywhere.

D. Review and potentially update laws on trespassing, loitering, etc.

E. Enforcing laws on trespassing, loitering, etc.

F. Shot on sight anyone labeled as "homeless" by anyone else (this is a joke).

I feel like A, B, C, and E should be common-sense. Does anyone disagree with those items? If so, please elaborate.

If there is a consensus around all those items then I am mostly interested in discussing and coming to a consensus regarding item "D". How should the laws handle various situations those we often arbitrary label as "homeless" often find themselves in?
A. A whole new system? Don't know that it makes sense financially.
B. Opt in to jail? That's not common sense at all. Its just bizarre. There ARE shelters.
C. We don't want shelters everywhere. Would you have one next door to an elementary school? The problem is much more getting people to accept help than the number of beds.

As for E. there needs to be more enforcement, but there also needs to continue to be some discretion.

So I disagree with all 4. As for D, the laws are probably fine as is.
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Old 08-18-2019, 02:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
A. A whole new system? Don't know that it makes sense financially.
B. Opt in to jail? That's not common sense at all. Its just bizarre. There ARE shelters.
C. We don't want shelters everywhere. Would you have one next door to an elementary school? The problem is much more getting people to accept help than the number of beds.
A. We already have a city jail (in my neighborhood) that we are trying to figure out what to do with because it is empty. Seems like a great candidate. It is also probably cheaper than the costs of these people staying on the streets and being reoccurring visitors to Grady.

B. Clearly there are not enough shelters. What is wrong with giving people the option of "jail". Just because you think it is too good for you, does not mean that others would not take that option. Do you really want to deny people the choice of a shelter?

C. What is wrong with a non-profit running a shelter next to a school? I am pretty sure there are no laws against that now. Are you advocating for additional limits on where we allow shelters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
As for E. there needs to be more enforcement, but there also needs to continue to be some discretion.
How should that "discretion" be handled? What situations warrant more discretion and which more enforcement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
So I disagree with all 4. As for D, the laws are probably fine as is.
Ok. Are you aware Atlanta has an existing ban on "Urban Camping": 106-12. Urban camping and improper use of public places., Article I. IN GENERAL, Chapter 106. OFFENSES AND MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS, Part II. CODE OF ORDINANCES
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Old 08-18-2019, 04:57 PM
 
5,231 posts, read 3,378,342 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Let me break it down so we can discuss exactly what the issue is. Here is what I am proposing:

A. A new class of "minimum security" jails / prisons that would cater to non-violent offenders and offer increased access to mental health and support services in addition to food, water, shelter, and healthcare.
I think people who purposely ride bikes and scooters on the wrong side of the street, in order to "increase heir visibility", should be put in the same places for one night. I mean, it's just a minimum security shelter, after all.
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Old 08-18-2019, 05:01 PM
 
489 posts, read 174,099 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Let me break it down so we can discuss exactly what the issue is. Here is what I am proposing:

A. A new class of "minimum security" jails / prisons that would cater to non-violent offenders and offer increased access to mental health and support services in addition to food, water, shelter, and healthcare.
Quote:
No, all you do is turn your nose up at the word "jail".

So you are either obtuse or evil.

Us reading someone suggest using violence to force people with no place to go into cages along with a criminal record and thinking that is abhorrent is not at all “turning your nose up” and you either know this or don’t care.

Aren’t you a libertarian ?

Most sane and empathetic humans would try to fix the problem of overcrowded shelters first so there is a viable place for these people to stay before ever suggesting we force humans into cages to “solve” the problem.
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Old 08-18-2019, 06:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otakumaster View Post
So you are either obtuse or evil.

Us reading someone suggest using violence to force people with no place to go into cages along with a criminal record and thinking that is abhorrent is not at all “turning your nose up” and you either know this or don’t care.

Aren’t you a libertarian ?

Most sane and empathetic humans would try to fix the problem of overcrowded shelters first so there is a viable place for these people to stay before ever suggesting we force humans into cages to “solve” the problem.
You don't think we have been trying to "fix the problem of overcrowded shelters first"? Clearly that is not working.

Can you specify which points exactly you think are so evil? It it "A." where we start to better equip our jails with services to assist people with mental health or other problems? Or is it "C. Legalize private / non-profit shelters everywhere."? I mean, you don't actually want to risk a shelter popping up in your neighborhood do you? That is only an issue a neighborhood like mine should have to deal with, right?

Last edited by jsvh; 08-18-2019 at 06:11 PM..
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Old 08-18-2019, 09:47 PM
 
489 posts, read 174,099 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
You don't think we have been trying to "fix the problem of overcrowded shelters first"? Clearly that is not working.


So the next option is to toss them in jail? Have you actually talked to sociologist and other people experts on this? I doubt it. Here is a hint ;no, forcing people into cages isn’t a viable option unless you are some sort of sociopathic lunatic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Can you specify which points exactly you think are so evil? It it "A." where we start to better equip our jails with services to assist people with mental health or other problems? Or is it "C. Legalize private / non-profit shelters everywhere."?
How about the one you actually made about tossing people in cages for bring homeless?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
I mean, you don't actually want to risk a shelter popping up in your neighborhood do you? That is only an issue a neighborhood like mine should have to deal with, right?

Unlike you I’m fine with shelters and we need more. I could care less where they are as long as they are accessible via transit and close to social services. You clearly don’t want them though. Hence why you want to toss homeless in jail.




You’re projecting because you are literally the only person here who has expressed some issue with new shelters and that you want to toss homeless people into cages.
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Old 08-18-2019, 09:51 PM
 
10,739 posts, read 7,622,011 times
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And what if I am not simply advocating for "tossing homeless people into cages"?

Please clarify exactly which points I am proposing that you take issue with. Sounds like you are supportive on "C." at least. You are fine with shelters being legal everywhere, including next door to you, correct? Do you not want to review and potentially update laws (D)? Do you not want to enforce laws (E)?
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Old 08-19-2019, 08:42 AM
 
5,231 posts, read 3,378,342 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
And what if I am not simply advocating for "tossing homeless people into cages"?

Please clarify exactly which points I am proposing that you take issue with. Sounds like you are supportive on "C." at least. You are fine with shelters being legal everywhere, including next door to you, correct? Do you not want to review and potentially update laws (D)? Do you not want to enforce laws (E)?
I think what we need is a wall. And we'll make commuters pay for it.
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Old 08-19-2019, 09:53 AM
 
489 posts, read 174,099 times
Reputation: 656
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
And what if I am not simply advocating for "tossing homeless people into cages"?

Please clarify exactly which points I am proposing that you take issue with. Sounds like you are supportive on "C." at least. You are fine with shelters being legal everywhere, including next door to you, correct? Do you not want to review and potentially update laws (D)? Do you not want to enforce laws (E)?
I take issue with the point you made putting people in cages for being homeless when we don't have enough shelters for the need.

I've stated this already and why would I care about whether or not I live next to a shelter?
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