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Old 08-21-2019, 04:39 PM
 
13,216 posts, read 20,957,812 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bellhead View Post
Churches...

I'm sure Joel Osteen will open his doors for the homeless.
I meant "real" churches. Actually, our charity is well supported by area churches, without them we'd be in in dire straights. And my comment about churches and hospitals having to provide beds was largely tongue-in-cheek. We are a non-sectarian organization, and provide support to anyone who exhibits a need, but I can't discount the monies local churches provide.
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Old 08-22-2019, 06:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciblue View Post
Do faith-based shelters proselytize to those who might seek shelter?

It's something commonly done by churches in missionary work. Nothing is "for free" or done "just out of charity." They have to spread their business somehow in order to survive. It's like an investment if you think about it.
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Old Yesterday, 03:31 PM
 
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Once Atlanta's largest prison, it's got a loan and a new life | Atlanta Business Chronicle

Quote:
The $23 million overhaul of a 125-year-old prison complex in Atlanta's Grant Park area has secured construction financing.

GlenCastle, the former city stockade, stables and farm, will be turned into 70,000 square feet of office space focused on attracting creative class companies. The project overlooks Glenwood Avenue near Maynard Jackson High School. A loan from Iberia Bank allows construction to begin without tenants signed to leases at the project. In developer's lingo, that's known as "going spec."

...
Would there be outrage in this thread if this prison was offered as shelters for homeless instead of homes for the "creative class"? If not, how is that different from offering up other prisons as shelters?
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Old Today, 12:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Once Atlanta's largest prison, it's got a loan and a new life | Atlanta Business Chronicle

Would there be outrage in this thread if this prison was offered as shelters for homeless instead of homes for the "creative class"? If not, how is that different from offering up other prisons as shelters?
First of all, it's not being offered up as "homes for the creative class". It's being offered up as offices, at least according to the non-paywalled Curbed article.

Secondly, even if it was being offered as homes, there's an easy way that it's different: people aren't being locked in against their will.

You seem to be missing a very, very simple but major difference between a jail and a shelter. In a a jail, you are locked in behind bars and cannot leave, and were probably put there against your will. Even if it's minimum security. In a shelter, you go there by choice and are free to leave by choice.

I would be dumbfounded as to how you couldn't see the difference, if I didn't think you were just toying with people.
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Old Today, 05:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
Secondly, even if it was being offered as homes, there's an easy way that it's different: people aren't being locked in against their will.

You seem to be missing a very, very simple but major difference between a jail and a shelter. In a a jail, you are locked in behind bars and cannot leave, and were probably put there against your will. Even if it's minimum security. In a shelter, you go there by choice and are free to leave by choice.

I would be dumbfounded as to how you couldn't see the difference, if I didn't think you were just toying with people.

Right, and I am proposing offering prisons / jails as optional shelters. AKA, not against the will of the person staying there. You go there by choice. You can leave by choice. Have you been missing that key piece?
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Old Today, 05:54 PM
 
13,216 posts, read 20,957,812 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Right, and I am proposing offering prisons / jails as optional shelters. AKA, not against the will of the person staying there. You go there by choice. You can leave by choice. Have you been missing that key piece?
If that was your key piece, I think most of us missed it. We were focused on posts like these:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Think I am deciding we need to have a backstop to end homelessness. We need to make trespassing / loitering / sleeping on public property an accelerating misdemeanor offense. First violation $200 or 24 hours in jail. Next violation goes to a week in jail, then a month.

These people sleeping on the streets are doing no one any good. We at least need to get them sheltered and provided with food, water, and basic medical care even if it is in prison. On release they should be connected with non-profits and other organizations that can help them / provide them housing options outside of jail. But clearly those organizations are not cutting it on their own.

We got to have some backstop for the people on are streets that are unable or unwilling to find other options.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Trespassing is a crime. Parking your car / "bucket of bolts" on public or private property without permission is a crime and likely to result in it being towed off and impounded.

What if some people are better off institutionalized? I am fine with providing & connecting folks with other resources to try and support them, but clearly more than that is needed. If you want to host people to stay on your property that is very noble of you and you certainly should. But if people are going to be living public property it should be in a structured environment where food, proper shelter, and medical care are provided. Not just in the gutter left to die.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Having people sleep on the streets should not be the solution to expensive housing. The solution to that is legalizing more housing via zoning and a Basic Income.

Putting people in jail should be a last resort. But it should not be excluded because it is better than having people sleeping on the streets without food, water, and healthcare.

By all means, please focus on getting people the support they need before it gets to that point, but if those other safety nets fail them having people institutionalized is better than on the street.
Where exactly did you suggest jails as nothing more than shelters for the homeless with freedom to come and go?
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Old Today, 06:32 PM
 
10,754 posts, read 7,632,183 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattie View Post
If that was your key piece, I think most of us missed it. We were focused on posts like these:


Where exactly did you suggest jails as nothing more than shelters for the homeless with freedom to come and go?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
A. A new class of "minimum security" jails / prisons that would cater to non-violent offenders and offer increased access to mental health and support services in addition to food, water, shelter, and healthcare.

B. The ability for anyone, by choice, to stay at that facility and get access to said food, water, shelter, healthcare, and services.

C. Legalize private / non-profit shelters everywhere.

D. Review and potentially update laws on trespassing, loitering, etc.

E. Enforcing laws on trespassing, loitering, etc.
There is no one solution to "homelessness" even calling these people "homeless" is an oversimplification. Many of the people that get labeled as homeless because they are panhandling or look disheveled do have places to sleep every night.

Do I also think we need to enforce the (potentially updated) laws we make as part of the solution to "homelessness"? Yes. Do any of you actually disagree with that?
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Old Today, 06:40 PM
 
10,754 posts, read 7,632,183 times
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Relevant news: https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atl...ents/978181429


Quote:
...Atlanta Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms announced the city’s HomeFirst Initiative raised $50 million to help get homeless people into 550 apartment-like units...


...Bottoms told Elliot the city's numbers show about 3,700 homeless people living on Atlanta’s streets -- about half, she says, of what it was 10 years ago.
I think that last stat highlights how the problem of what people lump into homelessness is more than just providing housing / shelter options. We are making great progress towards providing shelter options. But what is the solution for people who have shelter but continue to aggressively panhandle night after night?
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