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Old 08-21-2019, 05:10 PM
 
3,837 posts, read 983,958 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
What major US city aren't we lagging besides maybe Houston?

LA, Seattle, Chicago, NYC, Denver, SanFran, DC, and many more have all made more advancements in providing more multi-modal options. But we are catching up.
Which hardly offer any CoL advantage with their salaries in fields other than tech.

Why are we considered "lagging behind"?

Why do we WANT to be cramped in dense housing and be pressured out of our private autos to where we have to get sweaty on some bike (on the way TO WORK) or sit next to McStinky or McStabby on public transit?

Why do these pipe dreams continue to attract people?
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Old 08-22-2019, 05:35 AM
 
Location: North Atlanta
5,508 posts, read 3,894,057 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddm2k View Post
Which hardly offer any CoL advantage with their salaries in fields other than tech.

Why are we considered "lagging behind"?

Why do we WANT to be cramped in dense housing and be pressured out of our private autos to where we have to get sweaty on some bike (on the way TO WORK) or sit next to McStinky or McStabby on public transit?

Why do these pipe dreams continue to attract people?
Quoted for posterity.
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Old 08-23-2019, 03:26 PM
 
10,766 posts, read 7,639,621 times
Reputation: 3336
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddm2k View Post
Which hardly offer any CoL advantage with their salaries in fields other than tech.

Why are we considered "lagging behind"?

Why do we WANT to be cramped in dense housing and be pressured out of our private autos to where we have to get sweaty on some bike (on the way TO WORK) or sit next to McStinky or McStabby on public transit?

Why do these pipe dreams continue to attract people?
People deserve a real choice. If given the choice many prefer the safety of transit over cars or the health benefits of walking or biking to work.

If you want to keep driving, great. Just don't expect to be able to fly down streets that put others at risk. You will still have a choice to drive, but in many cases driving is not going to be the fastest nor cheapest option if we give the other modes a level playing field.
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Old 08-24-2019, 02:10 PM
 
5,257 posts, read 3,389,465 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
but in many cases driving is not going to be the fastest nor cheapest option if we give the other modes a level playing field.
Driving is never the cheapest option, by any stretch, except for maybe very very short trips.
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Old 08-24-2019, 05:27 PM
 
10,766 posts, read 7,639,621 times
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Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
Driving is never the cheapest option, by any stretch, except for maybe very very short trips.

When you factor in direct costs and exclude tax payer funded subsides it is. But it will not always be.


Question is: How much extra are you willing to pay to drive yourself around once other options are cheaper?
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Old 08-24-2019, 10:45 PM
 
5,257 posts, read 3,389,465 times
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Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
When you factor in direct costs and exclude tax payer funded subsides it is. But it will not always be.


Question is: How much extra are you willing to pay to drive yourself around once other options are cheaper?
How is taking transit or riding a bike or taking a scooter more expensive than buying a car, paying registration fees on that car, putting gas in that car, insuring that car, maintaining that car, and paying to park that car? Those are direct costs. Please provide numbers. Not urbanist generalities.

If you want to be taken seriously, you need to show actual data.
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Old Yesterday, 12:00 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
How is taking transit or riding a bike or taking a scooter more expensive than buying a car, paying registration fees on that car, putting gas in that car, insuring that car, maintaining that car, and paying to park that car? Those are direct costs. Please provide numbers. Not urbanist generalities.

If you want to be taken seriously, you need to show actual data.
Given you those numbers before. Don't think doing it again will help anything.

So, lets just ask this hypothetical ("urbanist generality") question:

Name the price it costs you to drive to work (probably not an easy task to figure out), and lets say Uber offers a new option that will connects you with transit lines for part of your route all for one price that is lower than your cost to drive.

How much extra would you be willing to pay to drive yourself around?
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Old Yesterday, 01:18 PM
 
5,257 posts, read 3,389,465 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Given you those numbers before. Don't think doing it again will help anything.

So, lets just ask this hypothetical ("urbanist generality") question:

Name the price it costs you to drive to work (probably not an easy task to figure out), and lets say Uber offers a new option that will connects you with transit lines for part of your route all for one price that is lower than your cost to drive.

How much extra would you be willing to pay to drive yourself around?
Well, I can easily say that in my expenses database in which I track ever cent that comes out of my bank account, the total costs for 2018 in the auto-related section came to $12,902.13 for two cars (although my wife paid for some of the expenses for her car). Even if that as it divided by two cars, that could be about $6,450 per vehicle in out-of-pocket expenses. That's the equivalent of 5.5 monthly MARTApasses each month per year.

Broken down per day, that's $17.67 per vehicle per day. Note that my car has been paid off for five years, so I'm not even including the cost of the car itself.

So, are you telling me it costs more than that to take public transportation?? And no, you have never given those numbers.

But, to answer your question...even if Uber picked me up for free and dropped me off at the nearest MARAT station, then picked me up at the destination MARTA station and dropped me off at work, I would still drive. The time savings alone would be worth it, since i don't think the Uber-MARTA-Uber trip could be done in less than 40 minutes which is a BAD rush hour trip for me.
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Old Yesterday, 07:11 PM
 
10,766 posts, read 7,639,621 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
Well, I can easily say that in my expenses database in which I track ever cent that comes out of my bank account, the total costs for 2018 in the auto-related section came to $12,902.13 for two cars (although my wife paid for some of the expenses for her car). Even if that as it divided by two cars, that could be about $6,450 per vehicle in out-of-pocket expenses. That's the equivalent of 5.5 monthly MARTApasses each month per year.

Broken down per day, that's $17.67 per vehicle per day. Note that my car has been paid off for five years, so I'm not even including the cost of the car itself.

So, are you telling me it costs more than that to take public transportation?? And no, you have never given those numbers.

But, to answer your question...even if Uber picked me up for free and dropped me off at the nearest MARAT station, then picked me up at the destination MARTA station and dropped me off at work, I would still drive. The time savings alone would be worth it, since i don't think the Uber-MARTA-Uber trip could be done in less than 40 minutes which is a BAD rush hour trip for me.
So there is no limit to how much extra you will pay to drive yourself, it is all about time? Even now you acknowledge being willing to pay 5.5 times to drive yourself. What if it was 55 times as much? You do the math a realize it will save you both time and money to move to a new home along a high-capacity transit route. Do you move? What is the limit you are willing to paying to keep up your car dependent lifestyle?

Or lets say we actually build transit / other options in dedicated RoW separated from traffic (as we should), and traffic keeps getting worse (as it will), and travel times end up being the same. How much extra would you be willing to pay to drive yourself around then?

Last edited by jsvh; Yesterday at 07:19 PM..
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Old Today, 08:23 AM
 
5,257 posts, read 3,389,465 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
So there is no limit to how much extra you will pay to drive yourself, it is all about time? Even now you acknowledge being willing to pay 5.5 times to drive yourself. What if it was 55 times as much? You do the math a realize it will save you both time and money to move to a new home along a high-capacity transit route. Do you move? What is the limit you are willing to paying to keep up your car dependent lifestyle?

Or lets say we actually build transit / other options in dedicated RoW separated from traffic (as we should), and traffic keeps getting worse (as it will), and travel times end up being the same. How much extra would you be willing to pay to drive yourself around then?
I honestly don't have a specific answer for you. All I'm saying is that I already pay 5.5 times as much. As in, I don't drive because it's "free" or "cheaper" as you keep touting. Again: driving is not cheaper than transit, by a long shot. Will you at least admit that and never say it's cheaper again?

That's not why people do it. I drive because it's the best way for me to get around to all the non-transit connected places I go. Transit will likely never be substantial enough for me to use it given my extremely varied geographic coverage I have through both work and play. It would also have to be equal to or faster than driving. I am not spending 90 minutes taking a trip that would take 20 minutes driving (which is the norm now).

I don't live the urban-fabric live-and-work-and-play-on-transit-and-rarely-leave-my-few-block-radius life. I also frequently carry big boxes of heavy equipment with me for work sites.

It's not as cut and dry a you make it sound. Many people live far more varied lives than your simple, basic life.
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