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Old 08-18-2019, 06:41 PM
 
10,739 posts, read 7,622,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
Yeah. But, they aren't on their own. And when you are around things that are dangerous, you need to pay attention. You know, like you learn when you're a child. Sorry, but the world will never be safe for you to freely walk around without having to pay attention in any way. And like I said, you are admitting that they aren't capable of caring for themselves, because they "have to be protected".

You seem like the type of person who would stick his finger into a table saw, then say it's the saw's fault because your finger wouldn't be dismembered if it weren't for the saw.
If we provided free tax-payer-funded tool shops in front of every home I certainly would expect measures to be in place to at least provide seperation to keep children and others away from dangerous things like a table saw buzzing right in front of their house.

Poor drivers. They just can't be bothered to slow down a bit can they? The children will just have to keep dying won't they?
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Old 08-18-2019, 07:11 PM
 
3,235 posts, read 1,501,959 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Besides riding on the sidewalk earlier on (which, if he had been able to continue to do so likely would have saved him) is the only thing the scooter driver appears to have done wrong.



When things like this happen when they ride in the road, we can't really blame scooter riders for breaking the law and riding on the sidewalk can we? It is just self defense. Despite many, maybe even most scooter riders breaking the law and riding on sidewalks, all these deaths have happened in roads.

Either way, the solution is better protected infrastructure for non-car modes.

Should we have more options for people who use scooters/bikes? Yes.

I have seen the most recent post stating that he was indeed traveling north. The scooter driver was still in the wrong and you can't deny that. I am telling you what he did was extremely dangerous. There was absolutely no space between the road and the sidewalk, nor was there a sidewalk for him to illegally drive on. I have walked in that area and let me tell you it's extremely dangerous whether it be coming from Marta or in the opposite direction to walk/ride a scooter where they indicate in advance the sidewalk is closed.
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Old 08-18-2019, 07:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamerD View Post
Should we have more options for people who use scooters/bikes? Yes.

I have seen the most recent post stating that he was indeed traveling north. The scooter driver was still in the wrong and you can't deny that. I am telling you what he did was extremely dangerous. There was absolutely no space between the road and the sidewalk, nor was there a sidewalk for him to illegally drive on. I have walked in that area and let me tell you it's extremely dangerous whether it be coming from Marta or in the opposite direction to walk/ride a scooter where they indicate in advance the sidewalk is closed.

What do you think a scooter rider should have done then? The law says he should be in the street with the cars. Even if he wanted to stay on the sidewalk GDOT approved closing that sidewalk without any alternative for pedestrians and non-car users.


It is time to hold our street design accountable. Safety of all users comes before maximizing cars per hour. If that means giving up a car lane and / or diverting money from car infrastructure, then that is what should be done.
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Old 08-18-2019, 08:26 PM
 
5,231 posts, read 3,378,342 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
If we provided free tax-payer-funded tool shops in front of every home I certainly would expect measures to be in place to at least provide seperation to keep children and others away from dangerous things like a table saw buzzing right in front of their house.
This is completely illogical and ignores the point.

Quote:
Poor drivers. They just can't be bothered to slow down a bit can they? The children will just have to keep dying won't they?
Poor non-drivers. They just can't be bothered to take any personal responsibility whatsoever, can they?

Looking at the video capture again, it's entirely possible that the scooter drove up next to the turning bus. Seeing that the police are not charging the driver, this may well be what the video shows. It's also worth noting that he appears to be wearing almost all black, and thus very difficult to see outside of just the bottoms of his legs.

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Old 08-18-2019, 08:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
This is completely illogical and ignores the point.
Was your point you think all children should have access to buzz saws? Maybe we can both just accept it is a terrible metaphor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
Poor non-drivers. They just can't be bothered to take any personal responsibility whatsoever, can they?
That is still not going to stop them from dying. Cars can't even be trusted to not hit stationary utility poles. Even a pedestrian following all the laws and minding their own business walking down the sidewalk is not safe from a road filled with fast moving cars next to them. We got to design our streets to either slow cars or provide protected options for non-car users.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
Looking at the video capture again, it's entirely possible that the scooter drove up next to the turning bus. Seeing that the police are not charging the driver, this may well be what the video shows. It's also worth noting that he appears to be wearing almost all black, and thus very difficult to see outside of just the bottoms of his legs.
Yeah. that is basically what I have been saying happened. Bus needs to go wide to take turn and scooter was in that space when they turned. Still, all that is exactly what the laws says for these riders to do.

But just like pedestrians, following ever letter of the law, even wearing all bright yellow with strobe lights will not save you from fast drivers.
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Old 08-18-2019, 09:24 PM
 
3,235 posts, read 1,501,959 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
What do you think a scooter rider should have done then? The law says he should be in the street with the cars. Even if he wanted to stay on the sidewalk GDOT approved closing that sidewalk without any alternative for pedestrians and non-car users.


It is time to hold our street design accountable. Safety of all users comes before maximizing cars per hour. If that means giving up a car lane and / or diverting money from car infrastructure, then that is what should be done.

The scooter driver should have crossed the street and then pass the area that was blocked. The driver could have then crossed at the pedestrian walk to get back to the other side. The driver would walk with the scooter and then once on the other side could begin riding again. He did something very dangerous and sadly could not learn from this lesson. So sad.
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Old 08-18-2019, 09:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamerD View Post
The scooter driver should have crossed the street and then pass the area that was blocked. The driver could have then crossed at the pedestrian walk to get back to the other side. The driver would walk with the scooter and then once on the other side could begin riding again. He did something very dangerous and sadly could not learn from this lesson. So sad.
On the sidewalk? That would have been illegal. Law requires them to ride in the street.

Riders are getting harassed to get off the sidewalk too:

Quote:
“We had kind of been cussed out for riding on the sidewalks. We’re not locals. We don’t know the rules. So we heard we were supposed to be on the street so, on the way back, we got in the streets,” Justin Ford told Channel 2’s Lauren Pozen.

Just as they got to their hotel, a car hit Amber Ford.

“I heard her scream and I did see the car fly by her and just seen her laying in the middle of the pavement,” he said. “I didn’t hear tires screech or all that. That car was flying. They never let up.”
https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atl...-say/972063999

So sad. A nurse and mother of two killed. I am sure the amateur detectives in this thread will try to find a way to blame this scooter rider too but we got to slow cars and step up non-car infrastructure ASAP. So glad to see the city promising fast action on getting some barriers up. Let's all hope they follow thru.

Last edited by jsvh; 08-18-2019 at 09:49 PM..
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Old 08-18-2019, 10:06 PM
 
3,235 posts, read 1,501,959 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
On the sidewalk? That would have been illegal. Law requires them to ride in the street.

Riders are getting harassed to get off the sidewalk too:

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atl...-say/972063999

So sad. A nurse and mother of two killed. I am sure the amateur detectives in this thread will try to find a way to blame this scooter rider too but we got to slow cars and step up non-car infrastructure ASAP. So glad to see the city promising fast action on getting some barriers up. Let's all hope they follow thru.

I guess how I wrote that post confused you. Let me better state: He was on the side where the sidewalk was closed. He should have crossed with the scooter over to the other side BUT walk not ride on the sidewalk with the scooter. He would pass the area that is closed and then cross back over using the pedestrian walk and then he could ride on the scooter.
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Old 08-18-2019, 10:27 PM
 
10,739 posts, read 7,622,011 times
Reputation: 3336
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamerD View Post
I guess how I wrote that post confused you. Let me better state: He was on the side where the sidewalk was closed. He should have crossed with the scooter over to the other side BUT walk not ride on the sidewalk with the scooter. He would pass the area that is closed and then cross back over using the pedestrian walk and then he could ride on the scooter.
So, scooters should not get ridden at all? Only walked down the sidewalk?

The correct solution is that all of W Peachtree is entirely unsafe in it's current form. And GDOT approving that sidewalk closure only furthered the issue. We need to action ASAP to install barriers to protect bike and scooter riders. That is why I am so glad to see this: City To Place Barriers and More Within 30 Days to Protect Bikes / Scooters
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Old 08-19-2019, 08:38 AM
 
5,231 posts, read 3,378,342 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
So, scooters should not get ridden at all? Only walked down the sidewalk?
Jesus. You really do hear what you want to hear. And make up the rest. This is not even close to what he said. He literally even said "then ride the scooter".

I mean it honestly when I say this kind of response is exactly like arguing with my seven year old. I can't call it what I think it is due to the rules.
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