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Old 08-19-2019, 09:11 AM
 
3,249 posts, read 1,510,797 times
Reputation: 2503

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
So, scooters should not get ridden at all? Only walked down the sidewalk?

The correct solution is that all of W Peachtree is entirely unsafe in it's current form. And GDOT approving that sidewalk closure only furthered the issue. We need to action ASAP to install barriers to protect bike and scooter riders. That is why I am so glad to see this: City To Place Barriers and More Within 30 Days to Protect Bikes / Scooters

I literally can't with you. Scooters can't be ridden on the sidewalk. The driver would have had to inconvenience himself by walking with the scooter on the other side of the road until he reached the Arts Center Marta station (opposite side because he hasn't crossed back over yet). This isn't that far. It's not like the sidewalk is closed for 10 blocks. When he reaches across the station, he would be able to exit the sidewalk and ride the scooter and then go about his business. The only part he'd be walking is from where the sidewalk closed on one side over to the other sidewalk and passed the closed sidewalk section. He would cross back over when he is opposite to the Marta station.
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Old 08-19-2019, 08:49 PM
 
10,764 posts, read 7,639,621 times
Reputation: 3336
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamerD View Post
I literally can't with you. Scooters can't be ridden on the sidewalk. The driver would have had to inconvenience himself by walking with the scooter on the other side of the road until he reached the Arts Center Marta station (opposite side because he hasn't crossed back over yet). This isn't that far. It's not like the sidewalk is closed for 10 blocks. When he reaches across the station, he would be able to exit the sidewalk and ride the scooter and then go about his business. The only part he'd be walking is from where the sidewalk closed on one side over to the other sidewalk and passed the closed sidewalk section. He would cross back over when he is opposite to the Marta station.
That is not going to save them from getting hit by a car in the crosswalk or on the sidewalk. Also what about the rest of his trip along W Peachtree? Should he be on the sidewalk or in the street?

Why shouldn't we ask drivers to "walk (/ push) their car" along this block? This isn't that far. It's not like the road is closed for 10 blocks. That would make everyone safer. Or is there a double standard here?

Last edited by jsvh; 08-19-2019 at 08:59 PM..
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Old 08-20-2019, 05:28 AM
 
1,675 posts, read 1,758,019 times
Reputation: 1301
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
That is not going to save them from getting hit by a car in the crosswalk or on the sidewalk. Also what about the rest of his trip along W Peachtree? Should he be on the sidewalk or in the street?

Why shouldn't we ask drivers to "walk (/ push) their car" along this block? This isn't that far. It's not like the road is closed for 10 blocks. That would make everyone safer. Or is there a double standard here?
It’s like you try to come up with useless questions. Your points almost never prove what you think they are.
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Old 08-20-2019, 11:41 AM
 
3,837 posts, read 983,958 times
Reputation: 4380
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamerD View Post
I literally can't with you. Scooters can't be ridden on the sidewalk. The driver would have had to inconvenience himself by walking with the scooter on the other side of the road until he reached the Arts Center Marta station (opposite side because he hasn't crossed back over yet). This isn't that far. It's not like the sidewalk is closed for 10 blocks. When he reaches across the station, he would be able to exit the sidewalk and ride the scooter and then go about his business. The only part he'd be walking is from where the sidewalk closed on one side over to the other sidewalk and passed the closed sidewalk section. He would cross back over when he is opposite to the Marta station.
The popularity of electric scooters came about AFTER 1.) city blocks were built to a fixed width, 2.) streets were paved with just enough room for cars, and 3.) sidewalks were poured with just enough room for pedestrians. If scooters are given ANY room or place, it is quite mathematically obvious it will impact either cars (which they move slower than) or pedestrians (which they move faster than).

Neither of which should be expected to coexist with traffic that is traveling half (or twice) their speed. I've got a big enough gripe about bike lanes (thankfully there are next to zero cyclists on the road in my city, despite all the lanes). This is just a bad time for the popularity to take off, and a bad place. There should be no such thing as a "road bike". Keep that mess, along with scooters, in skate parks.
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Old 08-20-2019, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
23,606 posts, read 17,810,423 times
Reputation: 5496
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddm2k View Post
The popularity of electric scooters came about AFTER 1.) city blocks were built to a fixed width, 2.) streets were paved with just enough room for cars, and 3.) sidewalks were poured with just enough room for pedestrians. If scooters are given ANY room or place, it is quite mathematically obvious it will impact either cars (which they move slower than) or pedestrians (which they move faster than).

Neither of which should be expected to coexist with traffic that is traveling half (or twice) their speed. I've got a big enough gripe about bike lanes (thankfully there are next to zero cyclists on the road in my city, despite all the lanes). This is just a bad time for the popularity to take off, and a bad place. There should be no such thing as a "road bike". Keep that mess, along with scooters, in skate parks.
Many of the streets in Atlanta's core were planned and built before popularity of personal motor vehicles. Many of the arterial streets we think of carrying car commuters, carried streetcars.
Streets are our largest public space and we dedicate 99% of them to cars.
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Old 08-20-2019, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Decatur, GA
5,337 posts, read 4,082,727 times
Reputation: 2855
Times change. Just because that's what something was built for, doesn't mean that's still the best use of it.
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Old 08-20-2019, 12:17 PM
 
3,837 posts, read 983,958 times
Reputation: 4380
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
Many of the streets in Atlanta's core were planned and built before popularity of personal motor vehicles. Many of the arterial streets we think of carrying car commuters, carried streetcars.
Streets are our largest public space and we dedicate 99% of them to cars.
When the automobile came about, it was an improvement to transportation. Not a novel toy (less efficient means) getting in the way. Cities were already loud and dirty from industry.

When you start talking about clawing some of that space back, the commuters now stand to lose something. A lot of things:

- Climate control to their own personal preference
- Storage that travels with them (you don't have to wear or hold everything you're transporting)
- You decide your stops along the way, your departure, your return
- If you have covered parking adjacent to your building, you might not ever need an umbrella!
- Phone calls en route without being a public nuisance
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Old 08-20-2019, 01:31 PM
 
Location: North Atlanta
5,508 posts, read 3,894,057 times
Reputation: 3011
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddm2k View Post
When the automobile came about, it was an improvement to transportation. Not a novel toy (less efficient means) getting in the way. Cities were already loud and dirty from industry.

When you start talking about clawing some of that space back, the commuters now stand to lose something. A lot of things:

- Climate control to their own personal preference
- Storage that travels with them (you don't have to wear or hold everything you're transporting)
- You decide your stops along the way, your departure, your return
- If you have covered parking adjacent to your building, you might not ever need an umbrella!
- Phone calls en route without being a public nuisance
Except no one is calling for a complete car ban.
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Old 08-20-2019, 05:00 PM
 
10,764 posts, read 7,639,621 times
Reputation: 3336
Quote:
Originally Posted by joey86 View Post
It’s like you try to come up with useless questions. Your points almost never prove what you think they are.

And what point do you think I am trying to prove? Your double standard of making riders walk their scooters a block on the sidewalk so drivers can keep their five dedicated traffic lanes undisturbed?

Also, if this block is so dangerous that the scooter rider (RIP) should have known to walk it on the sidewalk, what was he supposed to have done on the rest of West Peachtree?
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Old 08-20-2019, 06:46 PM
 
3,249 posts, read 1,510,797 times
Reputation: 2503
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddm2k View Post
The popularity of electric scooters came about AFTER 1.) city blocks were built to a fixed width, 2.) streets were paved with just enough room for cars, and 3.) sidewalks were poured with just enough room for pedestrians. If scooters are given ANY room or place, it is quite mathematically obvious it will impact either cars (which they move slower than) or pedestrians (which they move faster than).

Neither of which should be expected to coexist with traffic that is traveling half (or twice) their speed. I've got a big enough gripe about bike lanes (thankfully there are next to zero cyclists on the road in my city, despite all the lanes). This is just a bad time for the popularity to take off, and a bad place. There should be no such thing as a "road bike". Keep that mess, along with scooters, in skate parks.

Hmm...I dunno. Marta is pretty crappy and the scooters help make up for that. It's either Marta doesn't cover somewhere and/or the bus takes too long to come. Both car drivers and scooters need to learn patience and how to share the road.
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