U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Georgia > Atlanta
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-12-2019, 10:07 PM
 
10,691 posts, read 7,602,351 times
Reputation: 3329

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
Hmmm...well, I just picked out two random properties. A 0.13 acre parking lot in downtown, and a $485,000 home on 0.18 acres in West End. The property tax for the parking lot was $4,123.13, while the property tax for the half-million dollar home was $1,839.97 (and the house had seen a sharp increase from the previous year and also benefitted from homestead exemptions).
Ah ok. False alarm everyone. You got a sample of two so the original article stating "Commercial properties undervalued" must be wrong.

I am just giving you a hard time. I know you have to disagree with everything I say, but do you really disagree with a land value tax over the current system of taxing people more for a well maintained home and giving them massive tax breaks for huge commercial developments?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old Yesterday, 07:25 AM
bu2
 
10,201 posts, read 6,543,678 times
Reputation: 4275
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryantm3 View Post
people have a lot of awful things to say about immigrants but they don't seem to have a lot to say about people with money flying in from all over to get a piece of this city for themselves without giving back. and giving tax abatements for amazon? the biggest, most powerful company in the world? the one we all give money to *anyway*? why should the local government pitch in and start giving it to them forcibly?
The giveaways to Amazon were obscene, but not the concept. You are bringing in jobs that would be elsewhere so you give an abatement. When you give too much, like Atlanta did with NCR, they just move before you ever get your money back. And I don't believe school taxes should be abated. It isn't their role to promote economic development.

But the hotels and office buildings would be built in the Atlanta area anyway if they are justified. Tax abatements for them make sense only as a form of corruption.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 08:43 AM
 
5,191 posts, read 3,364,299 times
Reputation: 3451
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Ah ok. False alarm everyone. You got a sample of two so the original article stating "Commercial properties undervalued" must be wrong.
Just comparing parking lots to homes. I think a lot of small commercial property gets hit, but large commercial and corporate property absolutely gets a break, because rich people need to have breaks.

Quote:
I am just giving you a hard time. I know you have to disagree with everything I say, but do you really disagree with a land value tax over the current system of taxing people more for a well maintained home and giving them massive tax breaks for huge commercial developments?
I just disagree with incorrect information.... But anyway, as far as a land value tax, I'd have to see how it would be implemented. The article doesn't really touch on this, and I'm not listening to the podcast. How are the land values decided? Surely more than just size. Location is very important as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
The giveaways to Amazon were obscene, but not the concept. You are bringing in jobs that would be elsewhere so you give an abatement. When you give too much, like Atlanta did with NCR, they just move before you ever get your money back. And I don't believe school taxes should be abated. It isn't their role to promote economic development.

But the hotels and office buildings would be built in the Atlanta area anyway if they are justified. Tax abatements for them make sense only as a form of corruption.
Tax breaks should be given only if something is going to create large numbers of new, well-paying jobs or spawn new businesses and industries to develop in the area. Giving a company a tax break to move their headquarters with 250 people downtown doesn't really do anything for the area, especially if they're just moving in from the suburbs. That company is not spending new money in the city, and their presence doesn't really change much. But, tax breaks for something like the film industry (bias admitted) does help. It has created thousands of jobs, risen the pay of many and provide them with benefits, spun off countless support businesses which each employ more people and make more money, turned many a derelict warehouse or empty land into a productive studio, amongst other things.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 09:02 AM
bu2
 
10,201 posts, read 6,543,678 times
Reputation: 4275
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
Just comparing parking lots to homes. I think a lot of small commercial property gets hit, but large commercial and corporate property absolutely gets a break, because rich people need to have breaks.



I just disagree with incorrect information.... But anyway, as far as a land value tax, I'd have to see how it would be implemented. The article doesn't really touch on this, and I'm not listening to the podcast. How are the land values decided? Surely more than just size. Location is very important as well.



Tax breaks should be given only if something is going to create large numbers of new, well-paying jobs or spawn new businesses and industries to develop in the area. Giving a company a tax break to move their headquarters with 250 people downtown doesn't really do anything for the area, especially if they're just moving in from the suburbs. That company is not spending new money in the city, and their presence doesn't really change much. But, tax breaks for something like the film industry (bias admitted) does help. It has created thousands of jobs, risen the pay of many and provide them with benefits, spun off countless support businesses which each employ more people and make more money, turned many a derelict warehouse or empty land into a productive studio, amongst other things.
NCR wasn't really a good example since they were just moving in from the suburbs, but I don't see how you distinguish between bringing in a restaurant company from say, California, and bringing in the film industry.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 09:37 AM
 
29,517 posts, read 26,535,607 times
Reputation: 10346
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
Tax breaks should be given only if something is going to create large numbers of new, well-paying jobs or spawn new businesses and industries to develop in the area. Giving a company a tax break to move their headquarters with 250 people downtown doesn't really do anything for the area, especially if they're just moving in from the suburbs. That company is not spending new money in the city, and their presence doesn't really change much. But, tax breaks for something like the film industry (bias admitted) does help. It has created thousands of jobs, risen the pay of many and provide them with benefits, spun off countless support businesses which each employ more people and make more money, turned many a derelict warehouse or empty land into a productive studio, amongst other things.
The big boys have set it up so that if they don't get tax breaks they say they'll just go somewhere else.

So the little man pants around behind them with his tongue hanging out, hoping that if he gives them enough goodies they'll let him play ball.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Historic West End
4,250 posts, read 3,626,871 times
Reputation: 4046
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
Hmmm...well, I just picked out two random properties. A 0.13 acre parking lot in downtown, and a $485,000 home on 0.18 acres in West End. The property tax for the parking lot was $4,123.13, while the property tax for the half-million dollar home was $1,839.97 (and the house had seen a sharp increase from the previous year and also benefitted from homestead exemptions).
Sami, you are spot on. I live in West End, and that is close to my current tax rate for my West End home. A renovated home across the street from me, recently sold for $520,000. People can argue all day on here, but reality really sets in when the actual money is coming from your account for the increased mortgage payment. However, I do appreciate the dramatic equity increase, but it should be fair for both personal and commercial valuations.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 02:33 PM
 
5,191 posts, read 3,364,299 times
Reputation: 3451
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
NCR wasn't really a good example since they were just moving in from the suburbs, but I don't see how you distinguish between bringing in a restaurant company from say, California, and bringing in the film industry.
I thought I explained it. Don't know what you really mean by a "restaurant company". You mean like the headquarters for Longhorn Steakhouse or something? What distinguishes it is that the single company opening an office with a few hundred workers (usually at most), and which doesn't spawn much (if any) other outside investment, is quite different from bringing in an industry which employs thousands (most at more than a base office worker salary) and is responsible for a decent amount of real estate investment and outside job creation through supporting industries. Think of the lumber and hardware suppliers, the caterers, the prop houses, the lighting supply shops, the camera houses, the wardrobe supply shops, the heavy equipment supply businesses, the van and truck rental companies, not to mention hotels, rental houses, and rental cars. Some corporate offices may spawn a little more outside investment, but I'm thinking most don't.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 10:45 PM
 
10,691 posts, read 7,602,351 times
Reputation: 3329
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
How are the land values decided? Surely more than just size. Location is very important as well.
Of course. Most property tax bills already split out land and the structure value separately. So the empty lot the investor is sitting on pays the same land value tax as the same-sized lot next door with a business employing hundreds. But today their is a extra component in their property tax bill for the building that is often much larger than the tax for the land, meaning the speculator gets a break.


https://www.architectmagazine.com/pr...h-inequality_o
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 07:28 AM
bu2
 
10,201 posts, read 6,543,678 times
Reputation: 4275
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
The big boys have set it up so that if they don't get tax breaks they say they'll just go somewhere else.

So the little man pants around behind them with his tongue hanging out, hoping that if he gives them enough goodies they'll let him play ball.
And then they hire the relatives of politicans and donate to their political campaigns. And maybe give some cash directly to the politician.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 07:33 AM
bu2
 
10,201 posts, read 6,543,678 times
Reputation: 4275
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
I thought I explained it. Don't know what you really mean by a "restaurant company". You mean like the headquarters for Longhorn Steakhouse or something? What distinguishes it is that the single company opening an office with a few hundred workers (usually at most), and which doesn't spawn much (if any) other outside investment, is quite different from bringing in an industry which employs thousands (most at more than a base office worker salary) and is responsible for a decent amount of real estate investment and outside job creation through supporting industries. Think of the lumber and hardware suppliers, the caterers, the prop houses, the lighting supply shops, the camera houses, the wardrobe supply shops, the heavy equipment supply businesses, the van and truck rental companies, not to mention hotels, rental houses, and rental cars. Some corporate offices may spawn a little more outside investment, but I'm thinking most don't.
Lawyers, accountants, travelling vendors. Support companies. They all bring in ancillary jobs. But yes, a KIA plant will bring in more than a Longhorn Steakhouse corporate HQ or an EXXON corporate HQ (like in Dallas) while all the operating divisions are in Houston or New Orleans.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Georgia > Atlanta
View detailed profiles of:
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top