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Old 08-20-2019, 07:32 PM
 
537 posts, read 413,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntentionsRGood View Post
Kruse said all that to say this:





He can't make up his mind. Is Atlanta's awful traffic due to segregation or a lack of public transportation?
You might want to reread the section you quoted, specifically the parts about roads designed to segregate and rapid transit stunted by white flight. The problem isn’t his inability to make up his mind. He has a logically consistent argument regarding the influence of racism on policy even if you can’t comprehend what it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J2rescue View Post
What gave you that idea; all of the deflection and denial in this thread?

Here are direct quotes from the article.

Atlanta is not being "singled out". Atlanta is being presented as an apt example considering that it likely demonstrates the legacy of segregation affecting traffic (the subject of the article) more than any other large city.
This. Kruse is using Atlanta as an exemplar. His selection of Atlanta isn’t coincidental since he kinda knows the history well given that he authored a major work on Atlanta and the influence of bigotry on policy

 
Old 08-20-2019, 07:38 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
510 posts, read 352,920 times
Reputation: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR Valentine View Post
You might want to reread the section you quoted, specifically the parts about roads designed to segregate and rapid transit stunted by white flight. The problem isnít his inability to make up his mind. He has a logically consistent argument regarding the influence of racism on policy even if you canít comprehend what it is.

Drawing the conclusion that today's traffic congestion in Atlanta is related to segregation in the 1960s is ridiculous. Today's traffic congestion is directly related to Atlanta's population growth explosion and poor city planning. Even if public transportation was adequate, Atlantans refuse to leave their cars at home.
 
Old 08-20-2019, 07:41 PM
 
537 posts, read 413,062 times
Reputation: 883
Quote:
Originally Posted by IntentionsRGood View Post
Drawing the conclusion that today's traffic congestion in Atlanta is related to segregation in the 1960s is ridiculous. Today's traffic congestion is directly related to Atlanta's population growth explosion and poor city planning. Even if public transportation was adequate, Atlantans refuse to leave their cars at home.
That whooshing sound you hear is Kruse’s work rushing over your head. One person’s poor planning is another’s preferred (for bigoted reasons) if imperfect policy. Stunted MARTA and all that
 
Old 08-20-2019, 08:03 PM
 
2,358 posts, read 922,359 times
Reputation: 1829
Quote:
Originally Posted by IntentionsRGood View Post
Drawing the conclusion that today's traffic congestion in Atlanta is related to segregation in the 1960s is ridiculous. Today's traffic congestion is directly related to Atlanta's population growth explosion and poor city planning. Even if public transportation was adequate, Atlantans refuse to leave their cars at home.
It's a combination of alot of things but there is some truth in white flight to the suburbs / exhurbs (further de-densifying the region) and transit staunted due to racial concerns. MARTA rail has reasonably high usage for a system its size so if it were to be expanded there is a fair chance it would see adequate use. I personally would rather use MARTA rail to get to work than drive and park in Downtown if it reached the suburbs.

Contrary to popular belief, Atlanta DID on numerous accounts try to plan for its explosive growth but many transportation plans were shot down due to Nimbys (highways), or Political issues (MARTA rail). If all of Atlanta's plans had actually seen light the region would have a pretty sophisticated transportation network but only about 1/8th of their plans were realized.
 
Old 08-20-2019, 08:37 PM
 
5,239 posts, read 3,380,574 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BR Valentine View Post
That whooshing sound you hear is Kruseís work rushing over your head. One personís poor planning is anotherís preferred (for bigoted reasons) if imperfect policy. Stunted MARTA and all that
So, are you (or the author) suggesting that if they had designed the interstates to not segregate, traffic wouldn't be bad? Or if they hadn't built any interstates at all, that traffic wouldn't be bad? What is the end conclusion here?
 
Old 08-20-2019, 09:04 PM
 
537 posts, read 413,062 times
Reputation: 883
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
So, are you (or the author) suggesting that if they had designed the interstates to not segregate, traffic wouldn't be bad? Or if they hadn't built any interstates at all, that traffic wouldn't be bad? What is the end conclusion here?
Today children we have an example of reductio ad absurdum. Can you say reductio ad absurdum? Sure, I knew you could.

Seriously, I think based on reading your comments (obviously I don’t don’t know IRL) you’re more intelligent than this. Do you think that maybe ... just maybe ... that intentionally segregationist highway building policies, white resistance to public transportation for bigoted reasons (tell me again when Gwinnett voted to join MARTA) and segregationist de jure and de facto housing policies might possibly have helped have an important role in why we have the traffic patterns and thus the congestion that we do? I’d be perfectly willing to argue that Kruse is provocatively overstating his case because he’s a bomb thrower. I’m just not obtuse enough (or willing to excuse racist behavior) not to recognize that race has had a profound effect on temporal and spatial location of people in Atlanta and every other major US metro.
 
Old Yesterday, 05:39 AM
 
13,700 posts, read 22,192,384 times
Reputation: 4698
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR Valentine View Post
That whooshing sound you hear is Kruse’s work rushing over your head. One person’s poor planning is another’s preferred (for bigoted reasons) if imperfect policy. Stunted MARTA and all that
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR Valentine View Post
Today children we have an example of reductio ad absurdum. Can you say reductio ad absurdum? Sure, I knew you could.

Seriously, I think based on reading your comments (obviously I don’t don’t know IRL) you’re more intelligent than this. Do you think that maybe ... just maybe ... that intentionally segregationist highway building policies, white resistance to public transportation for bigoted reasons (tell me again when Gwinnett voted to join MARTA) and segregationist de jure and de facto housing policies might possibly have helped have an important role in why we have the traffic patterns and thus the congestion that we do? I’d be perfectly willing to argue that Kruse is provocatively overstating his case because he’s a bomb thrower. I’m just not obtuse enough (or willing to excuse racist behavior) not to recognize that race has had a profound effect on temporal and spatial location of people in Atlanta and every other major US metro.
Perfect posts. Thank you.
 
Old Yesterday, 07:18 AM
bu2
 
10,232 posts, read 6,568,701 times
Reputation: 4320
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR Valentine View Post
Today children we have an example of reductio ad absurdum. Can you say reductio ad absurdum? Sure, I knew you could.

Seriously, I think based on reading your comments (obviously I donít donít know IRL) youíre more intelligent than this. Do you think that maybe ... just maybe ... that intentionally segregationist highway building policies, white resistance to public transportation for bigoted reasons (tell me again when Gwinnett voted to join MARTA) and segregationist de jure and de facto housing policies might possibly have helped have an important role in why we have the traffic patterns and thus the congestion that we do? Iíd be perfectly willing to argue that Kruse is provocatively overstating his case because heís a bomb thrower. Iím just not obtuse enough (or willing to excuse racist behavior) not to recognize that race has had a profound effect on temporal and spatial location of people in Atlanta and every other major US metro.
The same pattern happened all over the country, whether it was in the south or in parts of the country with very few minorities. It happened quicker when you had white flight, but it was happening anyway.

Neighborhoods aged. The population grew. People moved to newer, bigger, more modern housing. Middle class Black families did the same thing.

So what's absurd is the premise of the author. Race is simply not the reason most decisions are or have been made. It had nothing to do with the cancellation of freeway and rail projects in Dekalb County. That was NIMBYism. It had nothing to do with the refusal to improve the arterial system.
 
Old Yesterday, 07:43 AM
 
5,239 posts, read 3,380,574 times
Reputation: 3483
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR Valentine View Post
Today children we have an example of reductio ad absurdum. Can you say reductio ad absurdum? Sure, I knew you could.

Seriously, I think based on reading your comments (obviously I donít donít know IRL) youíre more intelligent than this. Do you think that maybe ... just maybe ... that intentionally segregationist highway building policies, white resistance to public transportation for bigoted reasons (tell me again when Gwinnett voted to join MARTA) and segregationist de jure and de facto housing policies might possibly have helped have an important role in why we have the traffic patterns and thus the congestion that we do? Iíd be perfectly willing to argue that Kruse is provocatively overstating his case because heís a bomb thrower. Iím just not obtuse enough (or willing to excuse racist behavior) not to recognize that race has had a profound effect on temporal and spatial location of people in Atlanta and every other major US metro.
A simple "yes" would have sufficed. So, our traffic is because people were racist. If people weren't racist, we (and the rest of the country) wouldn't have traffic. This is what we like to call blasto out yo asso. It's taking two fairly separate topics and conflating them into one idea.
 
Old Yesterday, 09:19 AM
 
537 posts, read 413,062 times
Reputation: 883
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
A simple "yes" would have sufficed. So, our traffic is because people were racist. If people weren't racist, we (and the rest of the country) wouldn't have traffic. This is what we like to call blasto out yo asso. It's taking two fairly separate topics and conflating them into one idea.
I stand corrected. You are dim. Simple enough for you?
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