U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Georgia > Atlanta
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 08-16-2019, 09:04 AM
 
540 posts, read 655,680 times
Reputation: 853

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by J2rescue View Post

Your last paragraph is an important point. The article mainly deals with Marta and the routing of the highways but it is an entire system of segregation that contributes to traffic congestion. The kind of low-density zoning that was originally designed to keep the undesirables out, is virtually universal in Atlanta's suburbs and created "the poster child of sprawl".




If Atlanta was the first and only city to ever grow to its size, you might have a point. But since there are many other cities that are similar or larger and exhibit very different realities, we can be reasonably certain of the relationship between the factors in question.

A lot of the low density particularly in Buckhead is because the original development in the 1910's was mansions on 10 acres or more in a very rural area at that time. The Georgia Governors Mansion is probably the last of the original 10 + acre estates. Most of the others were subdivided in the 1950's for subdivisions. It's hard to argue that the City of Atlanta was using zoning to "Keep undesirables out" when this area was unincorporated until a massive annexation in 1954. It would have been ridiculous for the City to have said to these property owners "You need to be annexed so that we can force high density on your neighborhood of estates." This has occurred on the fringes of this area as a result of market forces.


Later on, when the suburban areas were developed, there wasn't a need to build high density areas because the population just wasn't that great and people didn't think of themselves as living "close in". If you look at large portions of DeKalb County or Cobb County which were developed in the 1950's, 60's and early 70's, these areas were perceived to be far out at that time and there wasn't demand for high density housing. A good example of market forces at work in bringing in higher density is the North Druid Hills corridor in DeKalb where many of the 1950's era ranch homes have been removed for high density townhomes or apartments.


Lenox Rd. south of the mall is probably the best example where the original country homes on acreage have all been removed for high density housing. At the time that the homes were built, there wasn't demand for high density in that area, obviously things changed and high density development happened. However, I don't think it's accurate to say that the reason that the area was originally low density was to "keep undesirables out".


The challenge which MARTA faces is that it was conceived in the early 1960's when an entirely different Metro Atlanta existed. Traffic congestion was not that great, so it was designed primarily for those who didn't own a vehicle. It replaced the existing private Atlanta Transit Company. If they had known that traffic congestion would have become what it is today, they would have designed it to be more appealing to those who do own their own car and where time spent traveling is more of an issue - Specifically, they would have built express train routes so that it doesn't take an almost an hour to go from North Springs to the Airport (when you add in the time waiting for a train). Unless it is rush hour, one can drive that distance in about 35 to 40 minutes.


The best examples are New York City where on the East Side, the 4 and 5 trains are express and the 6 is local; Philadelphia has an express which goes from the Airport to the 30th St. Station (The main hub for all of their transit options); London now has Heathrow Express which is a 15 minute ride to Paddington Station and costs about $20.

 
Old 08-16-2019, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
23,594 posts, read 17,782,202 times
Reputation: 5491
Quote:
Specifically, they would have built express train routes so that it doesn't take an almost an hour to go from North Springs to the Airport (when you add in the time waiting for a train)
Why is time waiting only added for transit? Where is time to back out driveway or looking for parking spot?
 
Old 08-16-2019, 09:53 AM
 
8,425 posts, read 10,387,379 times
Reputation: 6558
You're right.

Everybody, don't forget to add 8 seconds to your trip to account for backing out of your driveway.
 
Old 08-16-2019, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
23,594 posts, read 17,782,202 times
Reputation: 5491
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
You're right.

Everybody, don't forget to add 8 seconds to your trip to account for backing out of your driveway.
If it's taking 8 seconds to back up, you are not checking for people walking along the sidewalk. That's how kids get killed.
 
Old 08-16-2019, 10:06 AM
 
8,425 posts, read 10,387,379 times
Reputation: 6558
How long does it take you to look in two directions?
 
Old 08-16-2019, 10:13 AM
 
2,356 posts, read 922,359 times
Reputation: 1829
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
How long does it take you to look in two directions?
The dude just wants a world where cars must humble themselves to the shoes of every pedestrian, even if said pedestrian jumps out on a 70 mph interstate and gets killed somehow the driver needs to pay for the crime.

Is that too much to ask for?
 
Old 08-16-2019, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Georgia native in McKinney, TX
7,648 posts, read 10,167,554 times
Reputation: 5998
Quote:
Originally Posted by J2rescue View Post
If Atlanta was the first and only city to ever grow to its size, you might have a point. But since there are many other cities that are similar or larger and exhibit very different realities, we can be reasonably certain of the relationship between the factors in question.
It is similar to other cities that have grown to its size since the advent of the ubiquitous automobile. Even cities that were urbanized to a much larger degree prior to WWII (northeastern and midwestern cities primarily) still have interstates that were built in the same time and masses of whites left inner cities and moved to suburbs.

I don't see the point in singling out Atlanta like it did something that didn't happen in major metros all over the country.
 
Old 08-16-2019, 11:16 AM
 
29,538 posts, read 26,581,758 times
Reputation: 10376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks View Post
It is similar to other cities that have grown to its size since the advent of the ubiquitous automobile. Even cities that were urbanized to a much larger degree prior to WWII (northeastern and midwestern cities primarily) still have interstates that were built in the same time and masses of whites left inner cities and moved to suburbs.

I don't see the point in singling out Atlanta like it did something that didn't happen in major metros all over the country.
Huge masses of blacks have also moved to the suburbs.

As I recall, the city of Atlanta had a peak white population of around 300K, which declined to a low of 130K around 1990. It's now back up to approximately 200K. So a net loss of about 100,000 over the past half century.

That amounts to less than 2% of metro Atlanta. Hard to blame modern traffic problems on that.
 
Old 08-16-2019, 11:19 AM
 
15,851 posts, read 13,739,583 times
Reputation: 21865
Every city in the world has bad traffic, and many of those cities never had anything close to the basis of this article.

At that, plenty of highways run right through white areas also, some are very nice areas like where I live in Brickell area of Miami.
 
Old 08-16-2019, 11:22 AM
 
Location: North Atlanta
5,503 posts, read 3,887,812 times
Reputation: 3011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks View Post
I don't see the point in singling out Atlanta like it did something that didn't happen in major metros all over the country.
Because Kruse wrote a book on his research on Atlanta.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Georgia > Atlanta
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top