U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Georgia > Atlanta
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-10-2019, 11:17 AM
 
1,875 posts, read 1,907,146 times
Reputation: 1728

Advertisements

Maybe I live in a bubble, but who is dying for Atlanta to become more dense or to grow at all? I would like for our growth to be in nodes, and not as centralized as it is now. I have lived in Atlanta for almost 50 years and growth over that period has hurt our quality of life, if you ask me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-10-2019, 11:41 AM
 
Location: North Atlanta
5,537 posts, read 3,927,684 times
Reputation: 3059
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlJan View Post
Maybe I live in a bubble, but who is dying for Atlanta to become more dense or to grow at all? I would like for our growth to be in nodes, and not as centralized as it is now. I have lived in Atlanta for almost 50 years and growth over that period has hurt our quality of life, if you ask me.
Uh, growth hasn't been centralized in Metro Atlanta since the 1960s.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2019, 11:46 AM
 
10,882 posts, read 7,711,740 times
Reputation: 3378
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlJan View Post
Maybe I live in a bubble, but who is dying for Atlanta to become more dense or to grow at all? I would like for our growth to be in nodes, and not as centralized as it is now. I have lived in Atlanta for almost 50 years and growth over that period has hurt our quality of life, if you ask me.
Most of the growth over the last 50 years has not been increasing density but sprawling out further. That does hurt quality of life.

Density improves quality of life. It means you are closer to services, a wider variety of stores, restaurants, jobs, parks, friends, among other things people want. It means that instead of a train coming every 20 minutes, the extra riders can support 10 minute headways, shortening your commute.

96% of people say dense and growing Midtown is a great place to live and work: https://www.midtownatl.com/_files/do...inalforweb.pdf

As a current resident, I got to agree.

That is why it is so important to legalize the option of more people being able to choose to live in great places like Midtown and legalizing the creation of additional great dense neighborhoods in Atlanta.

If you want to stay out in the suburbs and deal with an ever growing commute from the additional drivers, you should have that right. But we should legalize more denser alternatives because that is what the people want. We got to stop limiting the supply of housing in those areas because it drives up the prices and is forcing people to live further away, in lower density areas from what they would really prefer.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2019, 12:22 PM
 
10,882 posts, read 7,711,740 times
Reputation: 3378
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
It mostly is. But, you're missing the root of the question. Most of the yellow growth area in Midtown and Downtown is already developed with towers, office buildings, and retail. Most of that area is not available or development, because it is already developed. Throwing a few mid-rise buildings on whatever lots are still around isn't going to more than double the population of the city.

High density equaling large populations requires either large areas, or even higher density (taller buildings or much smaller spaces) in smaller areas.
Yes, in areas like Downtown and Midtown should legalize basically a limitless level of density.

There is still plenty of area to be developed and redeveloped in the core:



Heck, Downtown appears to have a population density of ~6k PPSM, and Midtown ~11k PPSM. Mid-rise dominated Paris has 55k PPSM.

Physically accommodating 1.2M people living in Atlanta is not the problem. Politically legalizing enough density is.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2019, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Georgia native in McKinney, TX
7,905 posts, read 10,245,160 times
Reputation: 6091
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Yes, in areas like Downtown and Midtown should legalize basically a limitless level of density.

There is still plenty of area to be developed and redeveloped in the core:



Heck, Downtown appears to have a population density of ~6k PPSM, and Midtown ~11k PPSM. Mid-rise dominated Paris has 55k PPSM.

Physically accommodating 1.2M people living in Atlanta is not the problem. Politically legalizing enough density is.
The above map filled with a mix of attractive and more affordable MFH would be awesome. That area becoming a dense neighborhood of people would be one of the best things to happen to Atlanta.

Is there a market for it? That's the big question. On a broad scale yes. But at the pricepoint that it would take to build that out? All upper end for the very well to do, that is what I see.

Could this be made into nice apartments under $1k a month in rent and fees? That is what I would need to live there. I'm the kind of person that would need to be able to afford a rent like that, feel safe and find the neighborhood desirable for this to really take off like you mention.

I hate to be a negative Nancy, but it hasn't happened so far. I see it happening in bits and spurts, but in no wholesale way that the city will go to 1.2 million in 30 years.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2019, 01:40 PM
 
1,875 posts, read 1,907,146 times
Reputation: 1728
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Most of the growth over the last 50 years has not been increasing density but sprawling out further. That does hurt quality of life.

Density improves quality of life. It means you are closer to services, a wider variety of stores, restaurants, jobs, parks, friends, among other things people want. It means that instead of a train coming every 20 minutes, the extra riders can support 10 minute headways, shortening your commute.

96% of people say dense and growing Midtown is a great place to live and work: https://www.midtownatl.com/_files/do...inalforweb.pdf

As a current resident, I got to agree.

That is why it is so important to legalize the option of more people being able to choose to live in great places like Midtown and legalizing the creation of additional great dense neighborhoods in Atlanta.

If you want to stay out in the suburbs and deal with an ever growing commute from the additional drivers, you should have that right. But we should legalize more denser alternatives because that is what the people want. We got to stop limiting the supply of housing in those areas because it drives up the prices and is forcing people to live further away, in lower density areas from what they would really prefer.
My area--Buckhead--has most definitely grown in density over the last 50 years. No one I talk to wants more density in our area--the density has totally negatively impacted our ability to get to the variety of stores, restaurants, jobs, parks and friends that we already had and enjoyed. We weren't looking for a greater variety than we already had, to be honest.

Midtown is wonderful and it has a high-rise culture already--if you want to create more density there and downtown, have at it. But I have yet to talk to anyone in single family home Buckhead who is dying for another row of townhomes next door or high rise to be built over our heads.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2019, 01:59 PM
 
2,626 posts, read 1,018,042 times
Reputation: 2030
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlJan View Post
My area--Buckhead--has most definitely grown in density over the last 50 years. No one I talk to wants more density in our area--the density has totally negatively impacted our ability to get to the variety of stores, restaurants, jobs, parks and friends that we already had and enjoyed. We weren't looking for a greater variety than we already had, to be honest.

Midtown is wonderful and it has a high-rise culture already--if you want to create more density there and downtown, have at it. But I have yet to talk to anyone in single family home Buckhead who is dying for another row of townhomes next door or high rise to be built over our heads.
And this is why I state it won't be as easy as some make it out to be to throw up towers everywhere ITP Atlanta in the midist of the low density development.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2019, 02:30 PM
 
5,378 posts, read 3,445,225 times
Reputation: 3575
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Density improves quality of life. It means you are closer to services, a wider variety of stores, restaurants, jobs, parks, friends, among other things people want. It means that instead of a train coming every 20 minutes, the extra riders can support 10 minute headways, shortening your commute.
I guess that depends on how you define your quality of life. I, for one, do not want to be crammed into a small apartment with my family, on top of each other all the time. That sounds utterly miserable.

Quote:
96% of people say dense and growing Midtown is a great place to live and work:
You mean, 96% of Midtowners say that. I bet you could go to most neighborhoods anywhere and find that the vast majority of people love it.

Quote:
As a current resident, I got to agree.
So, then you're not a resident of downtown? You've called it your home many times. So confusing.

Quote:
We got to stop limiting the supply of housing in those areas because it drives up the prices and is forcing people to live further away, in lower density areas from what they would really prefer.
So, Midtown and Downtown are zoned low-density? I should check the map....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2019, 03:18 PM
 
10,882 posts, read 7,711,740 times
Reputation: 3378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks View Post
The above map filled with a mix of attractive and more affordable MFH would be awesome. That area becoming a dense neighborhood of people would be one of the best things to happen to Atlanta.

Is there a market for it? That's the big question. On a broad scale yes. But at the pricepoint that it would take to build that out? All upper end for the very well to do, that is what I see.

Could this be made into nice apartments under $1k a month in rent and fees? That is what I would need to live there. I'm the kind of person that would need to be able to afford a rent like that, feel safe and find the neighborhood desirable for this to really take off like you mention.

I hate to be a negative Nancy, but it hasn't happened so far. I see it happening in bits and spurts, but in no wholesale way that the city will go to 1.2 million in 30 years.
Well, I am paying $900 a month to live in midtown right now, so it is certainly possible. But it won't be new buildings with that price point. However, by building new buildings to add supply at the top end of the price range older buildings can offer more affordable pricing since they don't have to out-bid the wealthier residents that move into the new building.

So, yes, "is there a market for it?" is a valid question. I will be very surprised if the population forecasts hit it on the nose 30 years out. That 1.2M is assuming we legalize the density first off.

But what is the downside of planning for a better city with more people / legalizing more density and not as many show up? We are still making Atlanta a better place for those of us that are here.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2019, 03:26 PM
 
10,882 posts, read 7,711,740 times
Reputation: 3378
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlJan View Post
My area--Buckhead--has most definitely grown in density over the last 50 years. No one I talk to wants more density in our area--the density has totally negatively impacted our ability to get to the variety of stores, restaurants, jobs, parks and friends that we already had and enjoyed. We weren't looking for a greater variety than we already had, to be honest.

Midtown is wonderful and it has a high-rise culture already--if you want to create more density there and downtown, have at it. But I have yet to talk to anyone in single family home Buckhead who is dying for another row of townhomes next door or high rise to be built over our heads.
Atlanta lost over 100,000 people of density in the last 50 years. Do you have any data to show that Buckhead defied that trend? New towers do not equal more density.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4Camaro View Post
And this is why I state it won't be as easy as some make it out to be to throw up towers everywhere ITP Atlanta in the midist of the low density development.
Even if we legalized it, no one is trying to throw up towers everywhere ITP. There is not demand for that.

Also, mid-rises are typically better for density. That is mostly what we are trying to legalize in much of the "growth" areas. But in the "conservation" areas duplexes / ADUs / Missing-middle is the highest density.

The narrative of the big bad "tower" next to grandma's cottage is a distraction.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Georgia > Atlanta
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top