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Old 08-30-2019, 04:24 PM
 
5,285 posts, read 3,401,340 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Building 6,500 housing units in the city seems like a lot given that it is more units than anywhere else in the metro but you got to realize the city grew by 10k people last year. That growth is expected to increase to over 25k a year in the coming decades.

So, no. We are not building enough.

Also, the high prices intown should give you a big indicator that supply is not keeping up with demand.
Uh, I don't think I mentioned whether we are or are not building enough. The question is whether we "allow" it. The sheer number of units going up seems to indicate that we do indeed "allow" it. Just because developers may not be doing it to your satisfaction does not mean they aren't allowed to.

As for whether we are building enough, are you stating that 6,500 units is not enough for 10,000 people? That's a household size of 1.54, well below the average for Atlanta.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Huh?

Edit: oh, because I mentioned parking minimums as one of the examples of zoning rules limiting density? You probably need to stop obsessing over cars. You know, maybe, just maybe cars and the laws created to prop them up actually are contributing to many of the problems in the metro?
This made me laugh. Like, a lot.
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Old 08-30-2019, 04:24 PM
 
10,780 posts, read 7,655,447 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evannole View Post
Surely most of the 6,500 units are not single-occupancy, though. If as few as 53% of them are occupied by only two people each, with the remainder occupied by one person each, then 10,000 people are fitting in those 6,500 units. And certainly we know that a certain number of these units are going to be occupied by three- or four-person households.
I wouldn't say most. Especially because I know many people who live in two or three bedroom places by themselves.

Also, we are still building a fraction of what is demanded. High in town prices are still the red flag we are not building enough.
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Old 08-30-2019, 04:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
Uh, I don't think I mentioned whether we are or are not building enough. The question is whether we "allow" it. The sheer number of units going up seems to indicate that we do indeed "allow" it. Just because developers may not be doing it to your satisfaction does not mean they aren't allowed to.
Facts:
-existing zoning rules limit the amount of housing that can be built in a given area.
-limiting supply results in higher prices / rental costs.
-Intown Atlanta prices / rental costs are high.

Do you deny any of these facts?
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Old 08-30-2019, 04:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Intown living would be much more affordable if we open up and allow enough housing to get built there.
In how many major cities is intown living affordable? How many cities have built enough density to make intown living affordable?

The theory is correct. The actual practice is far from that.
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Old 08-30-2019, 04:40 PM
 
5,285 posts, read 3,401,340 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Facts:
-existing zoning rules limit the amount of housing that can be built in a given area.
-limiting supply results in higher prices / rental costs.
-Intown Atlanta prices / rental costs are high.

Do you deny any of these facts?
The only fact that is even remotely relevant is the first one. The other two are obvious, and have nothing to do with whether we "allow" enough. They are the results of allowing enough, but that's not what the question is here. You don't even know how to keep up in debates regarding your own questions.

Yes, limiting supply results in higher prices.
Yes, intown prices are high.
That does not mean that we don't allow enough. It simply means that enough isn't being built. The fact that there's a new tower on every other block in Midtown indicates that they are allowed to build it. I guess the question here is, should big towers be allowed everywhere. To you, the answer is probably yes. To the vast majority of people, the answer is no.

But, here's the kicker. Just like your oft-regurgitated term of "induced demand" when referring to roads, the exact same thing happens when building density. The more you build, the more people want to get in. The higher the prices keep getting. Very few, if any, dense cities have affordable living in town that isn't heavily subsidized or the result of laws capping the market.
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Old 08-30-2019, 06:35 PM
 
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How many major US cities don't have laws limiting supply of housing?

Basically you think your right to not look at a denser housing development trumps the right of a property owner to build it.

It should not. If people want to buy / rent a 300 SF apartment in a dense building to save some money on rent, they should have that option. We currently deny them that in most everywhere in the metro.
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Old 08-30-2019, 08:05 PM
 
2,419 posts, read 948,021 times
Reputation: 1887
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Huh?

Edit: oh, because I mentioned parking minimums as one of the examples of zoning rules limiting density? You probably need to stop obsessing over cars. You know, maybe, just maybe cars and the laws created to prop them up actually are contributing to many of the problems in the metro?
I'm betting between us both if we researched all of our posts you would probably have over 5 times as many posts as I have mentioning cars....that's pretty scary given I happen to be a car enthusiast.
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Old 08-30-2019, 08:40 PM
 
5,285 posts, read 3,401,340 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
How many major US cities don't have laws limiting supply of housing?
Any city. Anywhere in the world.

Quote:
Basically you think your right to not look at a denser housing development trumps the right of a property owner to build it.
Depends on the area. But, outside of the very core....yeah, pretty much.

Quote:
It should not. If people want to buy / rent a 300 SF apartment in a dense building to save some money on rent, they should have that option. We currently deny them that in most everywhere in the metro.
No one says you can live wherever you want in any type of housing you want, and that it should be made available to you. Neighborhoods should be able to decide what they want in their neighborhood. Dense urban housing in large buildings with 300 square foot apartments should be available, but relegated to the core of the city, commercial corridors, and rail transit lines for the most part. I see no reason to legalize them in the middle of established SFH areas.

Saying "well, they wouldn't get built there anyway" isn't an answer.
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Old 08-31-2019, 07:01 AM
 
10,780 posts, read 7,655,447 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Need4Camaro View Post
I'm betting between us both if we researched all of our posts you would probably have over 5 times as many posts as I have mentioning cars....that's pretty scary given I happen to be a car enthusiast.
Given that I have five times as many posts as you in total, that would not be exactly mind blowing.
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Old 08-31-2019, 07:03 AM
 
10,780 posts, read 7,655,447 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
Any city. Anywhere in the world.



Depends on the area. But, outside of the very core....yeah, pretty much.



No one says you can live wherever you want in any type of housing you want, and that it should be made available to you. Neighborhoods should be able to decide what they want in their neighborhood. Dense urban housing in large buildings with 300 square foot apartments should be available, but relegated to the core of the city, commercial corridors, and rail transit lines for the most part. I see no reason to legalize them in the middle of established SFH areas.

Saying "well, they wouldn't get built there anyway" isn't an answer.
Sorry, I think all neighborhoods should legalize affordable housing options.
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