Atlanta/Marietta rail line dusted off (Roswell, Alpharetta: work, service, suburban)

[wxjay]

Originally Posted by aries4118

Yes, commuter rail has fewer stops. That's why the corridor should be used for commuter rail and light rail.

The light rail would follow the rail route until Vinings/Cumberland and then go roughly along I-75.

The commuter rail would continue along the rail corridor.

Please see map...

Citizens for Progressive Transit (CfPT) | Atlanta, Georgia

I am not a train expert, but I do not think light rail and commuter rail can share the same tracks. The map you point to has two clearly distinct paths that might share a station, but not the same tracks. The proposal given in this thread would be for commuter rail only, and so my point was that the smaller, local stops would not work. I do agree that light rail would be needed instead.

[wxjay]

Originally Posted by netdragon

Skipping from the Cumberland Mall to Marietta Street would pretty much leave out all of West Cobb and most of South Cobb a way to park and hop on a train en-route into the city. Additionally, Marietta Street is very close to Five Points (look at the map above to see the distances involved), so It'd make more sense, then, to consider Atlanta Rd as the next stop after Five Points, especially since it is right off 285. By the time people in Northern or Western Smyrna, Western Vinings, or Mableton reach the Cumberland mall, they may as well just have driven the rest of the way... Then there's Windy Hill, which is both very close to the center of Smyrna, and also a major artery for Cobb County. You have to keep in mind how it could tie into shuttles, busses, and other transit in the future. To compare to existing commuter rail, Metro North from NYC to New Haven, CT has a stop in every city, and even 2 in Greenwich. To skip over Smyrna and Vinings doesn't make sense. Furthermore, there can always be express trains, just like Metro North has in my previous example.

Maybe I am just getting confused on the terms used here. When I think "commuter rail" I think of trains like Amtrak and also the "Purple Line" in Boston. I guess it's semantics really, but yes, a train system like Metro North could work. But you have to realize, clogging the line with too many stops will defeat the goal - to provide efficient transit to battle with car traffic congestion. Just for comparison, your original post suggests 15 stops over a ~15 mile stretch, which is roughly 1 stop per mile. By comparison, Metro North has about 20 stops from New Haven to the NY border, and that is roughly 45-50 miles.

[Frankie117]

Originally Posted by wxjay

I am not a train expert, but I do not think light rail and commuter rail can share the same tracks. The map you point to has two clearly distinct paths that might share a station, but not the same tracks. The proposal given in this thread would be for commuter rail only, and so my point was that the smaller, local stops would not work. I do agree that light rail would be needed instead.

Light rail and Commuter rail are basically one in the same. Also, they article mentions MARTA using the CSX Right-of-Way, NOT the tracks. Which means they'll build a separate viaduct or light rail (which refers to any rail used for passengers only, has NOTHING to do with weight).


Responding to some other comments:

It doesn't matter how many stations you have, its not like every train stops at every single stop. So, you could have as many stations as you want. The more stations, the more ridership, the more potential revenue.

Say you have station A, B, C, D, and E all within say...a half mile. Station A is the farthest away, and Station E is downtown where most all the passengers get off. Train 1 is empty when it arrives at station 'A', it picks up passengers and goes to Station 'C' then continues to its final destination of 'E'. Train 2 is empty when it arrives at station 'B', it picks up passengers and proceeds to Station 'D', then proceeds to 'E'. OR if ridership is really up, you have 4 empty trains go to each station and carry the passengers to station 'E'.

Also, you could have holding tracks at stations where the trains that are loading and unloading pull off so they don't block the mainline - without that system the trains would never get up to speed.

Commuter Rail is usually on tracks that are either along side, or shared by freight rail lines, and Commuter Rail usually refers to trips of 50 miles or more. MARTA is light rail. Light rail is usually very local (within the same city - usually no more than a few miles).


And finally, Georgia residents should be proud of their state for even caring about mass transit and railroads. It's appalling how many other states completely ignore both.

[atlantagreg30127]

Originally Posted by Frankie117

And finally, Georgia residents should be proud of their state for even caring about mass transit and railroads. It's appalling how many other states completely ignore both.

You should note that Governor Sonny Perdue made it very clear in a news conference last year when they were talking about the budget, that he could care less about mass transit and wasn't funding anything new for it. He wants roads and road spurs and extensions - that's it. This year since he's trying to be the running mate pick for John McCain, he tried to seem sympathetic and sqeeze in some money for a few extra buses for the Xpress bus system, but the other lawmakers denied the request (story HERE). No serious mention was made for rail of any sort in the budget again.

So no, we're not proud of our elected officials. Time and time again they have openly displayed a disgust for any type of public transit or funding for it. Any changes that come about quickly here will have to be because private interests and/or local governments step in to fund them. Considering Atlanta's recent "tens of millions" misplacement of monies, and the suburbs being too small to fund anything significant, our current situation is unlikely to change.

[willrusso]

Originally Posted by Frankie117

Commuter Rail is usually on tracks that are either along side, or shared by freight rail lines, and Commuter Rail usually refers to trips of 50 miles or more. MARTA is light rail. Light rail is usually very local (within the same city - usually no more than a few miles)....

Marta is NOT light rail. Marta is considered heavy rail just like D.C. Metro and Philly SEPTA, etc. Light rail does not go underground nor very fast. Marta has subway tunnels through the center of the city and a few suburban locations. Light rail also uses overhead lines for power unlike heavy rail that derives power directly from the track.

Also, surprisingly, Marta has almost 50 miles of track. Honestly, I hope they don't extend Marta into the suburbs. That's what they get for being racist back in the day. I hope they choke on their own smog.

I always laugh when I'm on the train whizzing by at 60mph while looking out the window at folks on 85 sitting bumper to bumper.

If anything, expand Marta to serve more locations within Fulton and DeKalb counties. I would love to see a line to Emory/ Druid Hills, and another one to Stone Mountain. An extension to SW Fulton wouldn't hurt either.

[wxjay]

Originally Posted by Frankie117

Light rail and Commuter rail are basically one in the same. Also, they article mentions MARTA using the CSX Right-of-Way, NOT the tracks. Which means they'll build a separate viaduct or light rail (which refers to any rail used for passengers only, has NOTHING to do with weight).

Light rail and commuter rail are not the same, at least as far as how they are packaged to people (and per your comments below).

Commuter Rail is usually on tracks that are either along side, or shared by freight rail lines, and Commuter Rail usually refers to trips of 50 miles or more. MARTA is light rail. Light rail is usually very local (within the same city - usually no more than a few miles).

MARTA is heavy rail, not light rail. Light rail, as its definition implies, is for light-weight vehicles that also use surface streets (with tracks of course) for travel. Subway systems like MARTA, the T in Boston, and the NYC subway are heavy rail. I know you say that the weight of the vehicles doesn't matter in the definition, but it does because it affects the very construction and where to place the systems. This is what I have discerned from my leisure research on the matter.

And finally, Georgia residents should be proud of their state for even caring about mass transit and railroads. It's appalling how many other states completely ignore both.

Trust me, many of us are not proud in any way shape or form with state leadership in this department.

[Frankie117]

Originally Posted by wxjay

MARTA is heavy rail, not light rail. Light rail, as its definition implies, is for light-weight vehicles that also use surface streets (with tracks of course) for travel. Subway systems like MARTA, the T in Boston, and the NYC subway are heavy rail. I know you say that the weight of the vehicles doesn't matter in the definition, but it does because it affects the very construction and where to place the systems. This is what I have discerned from my leisure research on the matter.

I stand by the fact that MARTA is light rail. MARTA is not a subway, although subways, EL, etc. all use the same style cars (once again going back to standard design and standard gauge). Light rail is a term used to describe ANY rail that does not handle freight.

EDIT: I actually was referring to the weight of the rail (80lb., 115lb. etc.), not the vehicles. Although if you want to go into that, MARTA trains are comparatively light when up against a freight train - or even an Amtrak train. I'm not sure if MARTA is electric, drawing power from the rails or if it runs on a regular diesel engine, guess I'll have to look into that.

Originally Posted by wxjay

Trust me, many of us are not proud in any way shape or form with state leadership in this department.

I would be, especially since the state even considers such projects (setting aside all the long-forgotten track rehabilitation projects in rural Georgia).

[J2rescue]

Originally Posted by willrusso

Marta is NOT light rail. Marta is considered heavy rail just like D.C. Metro and Philly SEPTA, etc. Light rail does not go underground nor very fast. Marta has subway tunnels through the center of the city and a few suburban locations. Light rail also uses overhead lines for power unlike heavy rail that derives power directly from the track.

Also, surprisingly, Marta has almost 50 miles of track. Honestly, I hope they don't extend Marta into the suburbs. That's what they get for being racist back in the day. I hope they choke on their own smog.

I always laugh when I'm on the train whizzing by at 60mph while looking out the window at folks on 85 sitting bumper to bumper.

If anything, expand Marta to serve more locations within Fulton and DeKalb counties. I would love to see a line to Emory/ Druid Hills, and another one to Stone Mountain. An extension to SW Fulton wouldn't hurt either.

You bring up a good point.

Its often said that Marta "doesn't go anywhere" when its probably more accurate to say theres nowhere esle for Marta to go, meaning that it covers almost every place that would warrant heavy rail (and many that don't) in this low density city.

When there is eventually some kind of transit expansion out to the suburbs, I think it should be in the form of commuter rail, with the possible exception of the Cumberland area. Running heavy rail out that far wouldn't be worth the cost and light rail would probably be too slow for commuters traveling that distance.

I think what also needs to happen is for development to be focused around transit corridors as its expanded for it to work.

[MMANN]

Originally Posted by willrusso

Marta is NOT light rail. Marta is considered heavy rail just like D.C. Metro and Philly SEPTA, etc. Light rail does not go underground nor very fast. Marta has subway tunnels through the center of the city and a few suburban locations. Light rail also uses overhead lines for power unlike heavy rail that derives power directly from the track.

Also, surprisingly, Marta has almost 50 miles of track. Honestly, I hope they don't extend Marta into the suburbs. That's what they get for being racist back in the day. I hope they choke on their own smog.

I always laugh when I'm on the train whizzing by at 60mph while looking out the window at folks on 85 sitting bumper to bumper.

If anything, expand Marta to serve more locations within Fulton and DeKalb counties. I would love to see a line to Emory/ Druid Hills, and another one to Stone Mountain. An extension to SW Fulton wouldn't hurt either.

Well if they dont expand it to the suburbs, it will remain as it is today: useless for the majority of Atlantans. If people actually want to get commuters to ride marta, it needs to go to where people live: the suburbs.
A line up to North Point mall and beyond would be a great start, since most of those people probably work in perimter center, and that distance is short. Marietta is good, and so is gwinnett. Also, a line to emory/druid hills would be great. S. Fulton would not help at all and is a terrible idea. The rest of fulton and dekalb contain relativley low populations of commuting professionals, so marta would not gain from expanding there. They are better served by bus.

[pirate_lafitte]

Originally Posted by netdragon

A funding mechanism for the Atlanta/Marietta rail line concept for the rail line through Vinings, Cumberland, Smyrna and Marietta has been determined based on future lease revenues of the CSX rail. Good news! I hope the momentum continues.

OnlineAthens.com | Opinion | Good news for Athens-Atlanta commuter rail 04/14/08

It's about time. I wish Roy Barnes was the governor. This would have happened alot faster.