Athens commuter rail (Atlanta, Macon, Doraville: 2014, theatre, university)

[abalashov]

We moved to Athens in 1999 and I moved to Atlanta in 2006, but still spent half my time in Athens until fairly recently. Between 2006 and 2012 or so, I went back and forth to Athens nearly constantly for reasons of family, work and personal life.

As I find myself back here for the holiday, my mind keeps wandering to why it's so hard to get here without a car, given that there's a huge mass of people who commute to Metro Atlanta from here every day or who have a regular need to go there: UGA students visiting parents, people going to the airport, attending major events in ATL, etc.

I lived in ATL for several years without a car right around the time Megabus introduced service, and at first it was fairly usable; three times per day, every day, from ATL-Civic Centre to the downtown Athens multimodal deck. The fares weren't unreasonable, if unpredictable. However, in 2013 that was cut back due to low ridership, folded into an interstate route that rarely runs on time. I haven't ridden it recently, but I remember it getting noticeably less practical or comfortable in early 2014. It was a stretch to visit my folks this way. There are still the Groome Transportation airport shuttles, but they take a very circuitous route on the Athens side but don't stop anywhere in Atlanta except the airport; all in all, it's a 2.5 hour ride for what can be done in 1h15m in a car, and drags one all the way out to the airport. Can't be bothered to even drop in at the Doraville station for a minute.

Anyway, GA-316 is a hugely clogged corridor, not just with people coming from Athens but with commuters from Barrow, Gwinnett, etc. It's a dense enough corridor that I would think there'd be an ample case for commuter rail. I know there have been periodic rumblings over the past few decades about a commuter train, but it's failed to materialise beyond the imaginary stage.

Obviously, not exactly a low-cost endeavour, but given that there do exist the CSX railway paths, in principle, I would think an achievable one. Does anyone know what the current status of that discussion is, what happened to it? Did it just trail off? Am I missing any key insights?

[abalashov]

I guess I could have read this before posting...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgi...in_Train.22.29

But I'm as interested in personal/folkloric thoughts as in the existence of any formal initiatives.

$383m doesn't seem like an outlandish price tag, though certainly unachievable given the overwhelming fiscal priority given in the state to road-building.

[tikigod311]

I think a commuter rail line going out to Athens may be the most successful line. Hits a lot of disconnected points and will make for stupid fun game day trains. The goodwill this line could generate with the state makes it a valuable early choice to build out

[fourthwarden]

It's really not an unreasonable route, and I can see it becoming a very heavily used one in the not too distant future. What I, personally, think will need to happen before we get commuter rail to Athens, is have Gwinnett County join MARTA.

The reality is that the state will be as minimal a player in transit as it can be, even in the foreseeable future. There is simply too much political back-lash from the rest of the state to helping the Atlanta core metro build things like trains. If Gwinnett joined MARTA, and if the Clayton commuter rail, which is currently in studies and planning, goes well, then we could very well see MARTA run similar commuter rail from downtown to Dacula, with stops in between to service the corridor.

CEO Kieth Parker has stated that MARTA's commuter rail will be designed with other users in mind. In the context of Clayton's commuter rail line, that means trains to Macon. In the potential context of Gwinnett, that means trains to Athens. Such a build out by MARTA would cut the additional needed route-miles in near half, saving GRTA, GDoT, or whoever operates the trains a decent amount of money.

It also off-loads the political pressure of the MMPT from the State to MARTA and the City. Instead of the state looking like they're footing the whole bill for a state-lead project, they're simply doing what they can say MARTA can't do on its own. That is, the state can say,"MARTA and the City of Atlanta are just trying to tie together all these projects they're building without state funding, I guess we can help!" and then use it for GRTA trains/buses as well as a bunch of national / intercity trains/buses.

As far as more active planning goes, our section of the Southeast High-Speed Rail Corridor, from Atlanta to Charlotte, came out with its draft Tier I Environmental Impact Statement this last October. Of the three narrowed-down routes, the Greenville routing runs through Athens, and suggests both Local and Semi-Express train service on the way to DC and to Atlanta. That runs some 14 trains per day, in either direction, stopping at Athens just along the HSR route. Basically, it's like taking Northeast Corridor level service, and bringing it between Atlanta and Washington D.C. It wouldn't be too strange to add even more trains on top of that with the commuter systems, since the Northeast Corridor does similar, and operates MANY more trains than that.

[LTCM]

Originally Posted by abalashov

at first it was fairly usable; three times per day, every day, from ATL-Civic Centre to the downtown Athens multimodal deck. The fares weren't unreasonable. However, in 2013 that was cut back due to low ridership.
.
.
.
Obviously, not exactly a low-cost endeavour

I'm not sure what your question is. Why would we pay almost $400 million to build that route when a bus, charging reasonable fees, couldn't do it even without having to front that kind of capital?

We all know the expected answer - Don't worry about ridership, build and and they will come. Or not.

[abalashov]

Originally Posted by LTCM

I'm not sure what your question is. Why would we pay almost $400 million to build that route when a bus, charging reasonable fees, couldn't do it even without having to front that kind of capital?

A few things on that:

1) Service cutbacks lead to a death spiral from transit seldom recovers.

2) A bus is not like a train in many ways, starting with the fact that it did not stop anywhere between Atlanta and Athens, and ending with the fact that it is subject to the same traffic that cars are.

3) Your question presumes that the current way things work is just fine, that everyone is happy with them, and that they represent the snow-capped summit of regional economic possibilities. If that's your view, then certainly, any proposed alternatives would simply be an expensive and pointless boondoggle.

[abalashov]

Very interesting! Thank you, fourthwarden, for the education. I wasn't even aware that there was an SHSRC initiative.

[primaltech]

I wouldn't expect much ridership out of a bus, that sits in the same game day traffic and all the same stoplights on 316 as you do in your car. That's not offering much of a better option.

A commuter rail would be a totally different story. As long as the Athens station is within easy walking distance of Broad St and UGA and Sanford Stadium. Which I'm sure it would be.

In Gwinnett, you'd have park&ride stations, which suburban residents could use to bypass traffic and get to the games. (And students could probably even use it on a daily basis.) And then the line would go thru Emory University, Brookwood/Atlantic Station, GA Tech/Westside, Five Points, and maybe even to the airport. So all of that should generate a ton of traffic for UGA students, who wouldn't need a car at all.

Bottom line, it would be huge. The commuter rail line would be hugely successful, and it needs to happen, for a multitude of reasons. But because this is Georgia, don't hold your breath, at least anytime soon. This state has to get its head out of the 1950's before it can think about joining this century and modern ideas of mobility.

[sedimenjerry]

Of all longer range trains, this one makes the most sense. I think it would get plenty of traffic and it really would help boost UGA. There are so many students, especially from out of the country, that don't drive or don't have cars. Having that connection ultimately to the airport is huge. Throw in visiting professors, researchers, etc that have a connection to the airport and it really helps. Add the needed commuter rail for Gwinnett (and farther) then throw in commuters to Athens THEN throw in the possibility of UGA students potentially doing part time work/internships in Atlanta and it just makes sense.

[primaltech]

Train ride between Downtown Atlanta and Athens would probably take about an hour and a half, and I can see students doing that every weekend. Either using the long trip to catch up on sleep, or just on their phone or socializing the whole time.

They'd probably want to get off at Armour Station (future MARTA HRT infill), and either take the Red/Gold either to Midtown or Lenox, or get on the Beltline LRT, or walk down, to all the best of the east side.

And heck, vice versa. Tech students wanting to see a show at the 40 Watt or Georgia Theatre, or just groups of friends getting together, with no cars needed. I can really see it.