Possible Reason for Atlanta's Violent Suburbs? (Nicholson: apartments, daycare, house)

[Scraper Enthusiast]

They have higher crime rates because they are populated by a high percent of black residents. This isn't to say that all blacks are criminals, or that even most blacks are criminals. However, in terms of statistical analyses, it is why those suburbs have a higher crime rate.

According to FBI statistics, blacks are at a much higher rate to commit a crime than a person who is white (European ancestry) or Asian. They're even more likely to commit a crime than a Mestizo ("Hispanic"), which have higher rates of crime than whites and Asians.

The Section 8 Housing breakdown and release into these suburbs probably accounts for part of the problem. However, overall, these suburbs have had higher crime rates do to the demographics of these areas.

It's as simple as that.

[LovinDecatur]

Originally Posted by masonbarge

Don't say "even". I can remember well when Virginia Highlands was the opposite of "happening". Until about 1980, it was an extremely depressed and dangerous neighborhood. The only saving grace were two bars -- close to dives -- where Emory students went to drink cheaply (George's and Moes & Joes) and a spattering of students living in the cheap housing.

Other than that, it was a really bad place. I went into a bar one night just to get a takeout six-pack, and almost every patron had a rifle or shotgun sitting right on the bar beside him (since concealed weapons were illegal).

Even later, 10th Street and Midtown -- now the hottest parts of the city -- were the hangouts for whores (including underage boys) and drug dealers.

Heck, if you go back another 20 years, Ansley Park was depressed. Most of the large homes there, now going for multi millions of dollars, were converted to boarding houses. As late as 1995, I looked at a huge (8000 square feet?) house on Westminster Drive, right on Winn Park, that was divided into rooms and in terrible shape. Asking price was about $300,000, if I remember correctly.

Yes, I remember well...in the 60's my stepsister lived in a hippie commune located in Ansley Park. Peachtree between 10th and 14th was 'the strip', Atlanta's version of Haight-Ashbury.

[jillmaican]

This is problem everywhere. We had this happen in our neighborhood in South Florida. The explosive growth resulted in home owners buying homes for over $150K (2003 - 2004) and living next to people who had lived there from the 1970s when the homes were going for $60K.

So in many cases the owners who lived there for 30+ yeaers moved on, and got Section 8 renters to cover their low mortgage payments...if they had any at all. This caused the neighborhood to go to crap QUICK. Which is why we sold. Whats worse is that by the time we sold the homes in our neighborhood were going for over $230K. So you have two completely different classes of people living on the same block.

The Section 8 vouchers will only pay so much...therefore townhomes/homes in the range of $125 to $150K etc. can be paid by the vouchers. That price point will also be susceptible to renters who might not take care of the place or Section 8 vouchers.

But if developers continue to gentrify areas where the Section 8 renters used to live then there is no reason to assume that this will stop anytime soon. The only thing you can really do, if you can afford it, is to buy a home that is a price point where Section 8 can not cover the mortgage payments

[Chris_Davis]

Originally Posted by atlantagreg30127

Various "vouchers" are allowing people who were once in limited areas to spread out much more and into the suburbs. This is creating what some in here have called "suburban ghettos" in pockets throughout the metro region.

Ok - so you have a mother with 4 kids. She works for minimum wage or a bit more and dad disappeared. For now, I'll completely ignore the whole topic as to why someone with a low income job would not use birth control and have four kids with a loser who runs away. Let's assume for a moment she has realized her past mistakes and is moving to the area to better herself and supposedly give her kids a better life.

Well, the problem is, a single mother who's in school and/or working full time a job (or two) can in no way manage or effectively raise several children no matter how great her desire to do so is. So, those kids are latch-key kids who come home and are unsupervised. They "hang" on the streets, with other latch-key kids, and they start getting into trouble. Break into cars, petty theft, etc. As they continue to grow with no real parental supervision, the crime gets into more serious stuff. A few years later - poof - you have a whole new generation of convenience store robbers, carjackers, and home invaders.

While Mom meant well by moving into the suburbs, all she did was move the kids away from a variety of services and programs that MIGHT have kept them occupied that cities provide, but are all but nonexistant in the suburbs. Hence - bored kids = crime. In the cities you have various youth programs from volunteerism to job training to simply recreational complexes - in the burbs you have NOTHING to do but walk the street with other kids looking for stuff to get into.

So, these suburban housing vouchers are doing no one any favors - certainly not the kids who are taken away from programs they could be involved in, and certainly not the communities that suffer the wrath of these bored groups of kids who grow up into something worse.

This is a great point, Greg. For the last four years I've taugh inner city teenagers in NYC and there certainly are a lot of programs outside of school for them to be involved with that keep them off the streets. I grew up in the suburbs and there were very very few places for kids to go after school except for their own neighborhood. The suburbs can be exremely boring for a teenager and without parental supervision they can easily fall into some bad habits if surrounded by the wrong people.

[bayarea-girl]

Scraper, again you need help and some education.

[Atlantasfinest]

Originally Posted by masonbarge

Don't say "even". I can remember well when Virginia Highlands was the opposite of "happening". Until about 1980, it was an extremely depressed and dangerous neighborhood. The only saving grace were two bars -- close to dives -- where Emory students went to drink cheaply (George's and Moes & Joes) and a spattering of students living in the cheap housing.

Other than that, it was a really bad place. I went into a bar one night just to get a takeout six-pack, and almost every patron had a rifle or shotgun sitting right on the bar beside him (since concealed weapons were illegal).

Even later, 10th Street and Midtown -- now the hottest parts of the city -- were the hangouts for whores (including underage boys) and drug dealers.

Heck, if you go back another 20 years, Ansley Park was depressed. Most of the large homes there, now going for multi millions of dollars, were converted to boarding houses. As late as 1995, I looked at a huge (8000 square feet?) house on Westminster Drive, right on Winn Park, that was divided into rooms and in terrible shape. Asking price was about $300,000, if I remember correctly.

Great post for relative (Been here off and on for 9 years) newcomers. I was at the VAHI Festival this past weekend and I couldn't even imagine that neighborhood being crappy at any time. Truly amazing what dedicated homeowners and residents can do for a neighborhood.

[Merin]

We had a similar discussion at our HOA meeting. A man in my development works for the Atlanta Housing Authority. He told us that most of those being displaced, by the closing of public housing, look for housing in their current area of residence. So most actually want to stay in the City of Atlanta. However the areas are unable to accommodate everyone, so some people have to move farther out.
I couldn't get exact figures from him, but the Section 8 vouchers really aren't for that much money. I believe they take the average rent in your area to determine the amount. Additionally, you cannot use the voucher and then supplement the amount( with additional funds) to move into a more expensive place.
Finally if anyone has neighbors renting Section 8, remember if they have to follow certain rules or they get their vouchers yanked.

[Scraper Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by bayarea-girl

Scraper, again you need help and some education.

Go educate yourself with the FBI crime statistics, and stop harassing me for stating a truth. As Jack Nicholson said, "You Can't Handle the Truth"!!

[bayarea-girl]

When I was looking for a place in Alpharetta, Roswell, & Marietta a lot of people were encouraging section 8 renters. Where I live in CA you would never want Section 8/ low income people living in your area (brings down neighborhoods actually in my neighborhood people might even protest it publicly). Section 8 people rent in the city (where I live). So I didn't even entertain viewing properties that accepted section 8 in GA. But if low income folks are being kicked out of their city dwelling and have no other choice but to move to a burb, that is really really scary.

[JB432]

There are a great many theories and arguments about this topic. But what remains is, what to do about the problem. Section eight, I beleive, is probably a step up form "something Hieghts" where the social condition can and has often brokendown sometimes to the point of tribalism. Recall East Lake.

Section 8 allows for the resident to lead a more normal and humaine life. In this way it also allows the community at large to integrate the resident. But the very same community now must absorb the risk. I think so long as the community is given tools to manage this risk, it will work. Unfortunatley, the United States does not have a good track record on giving communites any tools.