MARTA Planning Corridors (Atlanta, Alpharetta, Tucker: sales, lease, construction)

[chip1980]

http://www.itsmarta.com/images/image006.jpg (broken link)

The brown/yellow line would be nice

[atlantagreg30127]

Originally Posted by chip1980

The brown/yellow line would be nice

Sounds too much like bathroom talk. I mean, I'd be afraid to take the "brown line" with some of the folks I see riding the train (vagrants). Might find a surprise in the seat. Ewww.

But seriously though, those proposed lines/routes have been on MARTA's site for some time now. My guess is that if Perdue actually DOES at lease fake to care about transit and puts more money into it as he says, those routes will be adjusted due to newfound funding.

[chip1980]

^^^ True, you would think the surrounding metro counties would have been funded a rail proposal/expansion especially with the northline with all the jobs in Alpharetta

[BobKovacs]

Originally Posted by chip1980

^^^ True, you would think the surrounding metro counties would have been funded a rail proposal/expansion especially with the northline with all the jobs in Alpharetta

But Alpharetta is in Fulton County, which already funds MARTA. None of the other counties are going to spend money to make it easier for people to commute out of that county and into another- why would Cherokee County, for example, want to invest tax dollars to let people commute to downtown Atlanta? They'd rather re-invest their tax $$ locally, and build industry within the county so people don't have to commute to other counties to go to work (which is what they're doing). Maybe 20 years down the road, when there are larger work hubs all around the metro area, they'd be willing to kick in $$ because people would then be able to commute to Cherokee, or Cobb, or Forsyth County, rather than from those counties, but they don't have the $$ to invest in that now for what would be a very limited return.

That's why county-funded rail programs don't work. If you look at any other successful rail program in the country, it's generally either self-funded (very rare) or funded with state/federal money. NJ Transit runs from all over New Jersey to NYC- do you think all of the counties that those trains run through pay for the train system? Nope- they sure don't- and neither does NYC, which receives the majority of the benefit of the system because of all the commuters that funnel into Manhattan on the trains. The system costs approximately $2.1 billion/year to operate, and revenue from ticket sales amounts to approximately $740 million- the shortfall is covered by federal, state, and local grants, with the vast majority being federal and state. The local grants they do receive are typically from the large cities like Jersey City and Newark, which are getting light rail installations, and that money is generally federal/state grant money that the city received, so there's really no "local funding" to speak of.

[plessthanpointohfive]

I thought the DC Metro was funded by all the states/counties it serves?? I could be misunderstood...

[BobKovacs]

Originally Posted by plessthanpointohfive

I thought the DC Metro was funded by all the states/counties it serves?? I could be misunderstood...

Metro gets around 40% of it's shortfall funding from DC, 40% from a 2% sales tax in MD, and the remaining 20% from 5 cities/counties in VA, so again, it's mostly federal/state, and only partly "local" funding.

[plessthanpointohfive]

Gotcha. Thanks for the info.

The map above looks like a dream come true. It says that gray line is being implemented now. What does THAT mean? Is there actual construction going on?

[masonbarge]

Originally Posted by BobKovacs

NJ Transit runs from all over New Jersey to NYC- do you think all of the counties that those trains run through pay for the train system? Nope- they sure don't- and neither does NYC, which receives the majority of the benefit of the system because of all the commuters that funnel into Manhattan on the trains.

This is the perception that, as you state, would keep Forsyth County from helping fund rail service to Atlanta proper. Yet, it is actually incorrect, according to a (comparably) scientific analysis by economist Tim Harford in "The Logic of Life". The benefit is actually higher to New Jersey, although there is considerable benefit to NYC.

If you want to attract new business, the best way to do it is to increase transportation, and yes, this includes passenger rail.

[chip1980]

Originally Posted by BobKovacs

But Alpharetta is in Fulton County, which already funds MARTA. None of the other counties are going to spend money to make it easier for people to commute out of that county and into another- why would Cherokee County, for example, want to invest tax dollars to let people commute to downtown Atlanta? They'd rather re-invest their tax $$ locally, and build industry within the county so people don't have to commute to other counties to go to work (which is what they're doing). Maybe 20 years down the road, when there are larger work hubs all around the metro area, they'd be willing to kick in $$ because people would then be able to commute to Cherokee, or Cobb, or Forsyth County, rather than from those counties, but they don't have the $$ to invest in that now for what would be a very limited return.

That's why county-funded rail programs don't work. If you look at any other successful rail program in the country, it's generally either self-funded (very rare) or funded with state/federal money. NJ Transit runs from all over New Jersey to NYC- do you think all of the counties that those trains run through pay for the train system? Nope- they sure don't- and neither does NYC, which receives the majority of the benefit of the system because of all the commuters that funnel into Manhattan on the trains. The system costs approximately $2.1 billion/year to operate, and revenue from ticket sales amounts to approximately $740 million- the shortfall is covered by federal, state, and local grants, with the vast majority being federal and state. The local grants they do receive are typically from the large cities like Jersey City and Newark, which are getting light rail installations, and that money is generally federal/state grant money that the city received, so there's really no "local funding" to speak of.

Thanks for breaking it down!

[JPD]

Originally Posted by plessthanpointohfive

It says that gray line is being implemented now. What does THAT mean? Is there actual construction going on?

The Gray line is Memorial Drive Bus Rapid Transit. I'm not clear on what that means, exactly, but there is major construction underway on the bridge and on ramps at Memorial Drive and 285. I don't know what's going on along Memorial Drive outside of 285.

I'd be interested to know where the north spur of the gray line goes. Tucker or Clarkston, maybe?