Conservative editors/radio people starting to speak up against commuter rail (Atlanta: high school, college)

[atlantagreg30127]

Originally Posted by onemanarmy

I dont know how I really feel about zone fare. I mean if they would like to increase the flat rate I can understand, however I can't see how they justify charging someone depending on their stop. If I get on the train at Buckhead and get off at Civic Center, why should I have to pay more to go the airport, the train is going no matter what.

Well, that's kind of like saying, "Why shouldn't my cab fare be the same whether I'm going 2 miles or 8 miles, if the cab is going in the direction I am anyway?". You KNOW that's not gonna happen. If the cab is going from point A to point B whether you're in the cab or not, and you hob in the cab, the driver is still going to charge you for the distance you've gone, even if he was headed in that direction anyway regardless of if you're in the car or not.

Zone fares are actually pretty common. Even in my smaller home town of Charleston, WV where we have no rail, our city bus system (KRT) charges zone fares. There is a "base fare" that covers you within a certain range, but if you're traveling outside of that range you pay more depending on how much further out you go. Pretty common practice, actually.

[atlantagreg30127]

Originally Posted by BobKovacs

There's something everyone seems to be missing in the talk about "the tracks are already there- we just need to use them"- the majority of the tracks in question are single tracks, which aren't exactly set up for "commuter rail", which requires dual tracks for trains running in both directions.

Maybe I'm missing something, but don't commuter trains usually just go in one direction in the AM, then back again in the PM, similar to the schedule that Xpress commuter buses do?

In other words, this is how I THOUGHT commuter trains here would work: You get on the train in Cartersville, where there are trains leaving for Atlanta at 6am, 7am, 8am, and 9am. *Maybe* around noon there is a reverse-trip that goes from Atlanta back to Cartersville, but in the AM all trains are just going one way... to Atlanta. Then, around 4pm, 5pm, 6pm, you have trains that go from Atlanta back to Cartersville. So, in the AM hours all trains are only going to the city, and in the PM hours they are only headed back out to the burbs again.

That's the way I was made to believe the system here would work, so, why would they need dual tracks for two-way traffic if they're only going one way each time of the day? Again, since I've not lived in a city that offered commuter rail maybe I'm missing something you can teach me about, but at least that's the way I was seeing it so far.

[wxjay]

Originally Posted by atlantagreg30127

Well, that's kind of like saying, "Why shouldn't my cab fare be the same whether I'm going 2 miles or 8 miles, if the cab is going in the direction I am anyway?". You KNOW that's not gonna happen. If the cab is going from point A to point B whether you're in the cab or not, and you hob in the cab, the driver is still going to charge you for the distance you've gone, even if he was headed in that direction anyway regardless of if you're in the car or not.

Zone fares are actually pretty common. Even in my smaller home town of Charleston, WV where we have no rail, our city bus system (KRT) charges zone fares. There is a "base fare" that covers you within a certain range, but if you're traveling outside of that range you pay more depending on how much further out you go. Pretty common practice, actually.

I think making any changes to fare prices right now in our current situation would be a BAD move. In fact, some transit agencies across the country (e.g., Rochester, NY) have actually lowered bus fares to spur more ridership, even though they have seen an increase recently.

I don't think that the Atlanta region is ready or able to support changes in its fare structures, particularly because of the disjointedness of the transit system as it exists right now (every county having their own system, except for Fulton/Dekalb). The push has to be to unity of transit under some authority (GRTA, for example). It is beyond me why I have to look at Cobb County, Gwinnett County, GRTA, and MARTA buses at the Arts Center Station. Talk about inefficiency and cumbersome procedures.

[BobKovacs]

Originally Posted by atlantagreg30127

Maybe I'm missing something, but don't commuter trains usually just go in one direction in the AM, then back again in the PM, similar to the schedule that Xpress commuter buses do?

Nope- if you look at most rail systems, there's two-way traffic all day- it's just more frequent in one direction in the am and the opposite direction in the pm. You also need the second track for maintenance, breakdowns, etc.- what happens if the 6am train dies on the track and there's no additional track? You've got every commuter who relies on the train stuck for potentially hours until that train is moved.

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by atlantagreg30127

Maybe I'm missing something, but don't commuter trains usually just go in one direction in the AM, then back again in the PM, similar to the schedule that Xpress commuter buses do?

The problem with that is that the "empty" or "dead head" trains have to get back to the point of origination to pick up the next load of passengers. There aren't typically enough unique cars to just gather them all at the north terminus and then stack them up downtown until afternoon. Buses have a 2 way "track".

Also, what if you work odd hours or need to go home to the northern suburbs a little early? Then you have no way to get there and would probably not use transit. I lived for 15 years with a commuter rail stop 2 miles away, but used it only a handful of times to get to/from work, because it assumed an inbound trip between 6 and 8 am, and an outbound trip between 5 and 7pm. In New York, they have a system that runs in both directions, with decent schedules, 7/24. That's why you can get along in NY City or the outlying suburbs without a car entirely or a car for use only for trips outside the area.

[atlantagreg30127]

Originally Posted by neil0311

Also, what if you work odd hours or need to go home to the northern suburbs a little early? Then you have no way to get there and would probably not use transit. I lived for 15 years with a commuter rail stop 2 miles away, but used it only a handful of times to get to/from work, because it assumed an inbound trip between 6 and 8 am, and an outbound trip between 5 and 7pm.

That's my one beef with our current Xpress buses. Most of them only run into the city in the AM and back out in the PM hours with no real mid-day service back out, and no weekend/Saturday service at all. Otherwise I'd use them for casual use.

[JPD]

Originally Posted by neil0311

Also, what if you work odd hours or need to go home to the northern suburbs a little early?

People who work odd hours are not the target market for a commuter rail system. The main purpose of a commuter rail system is to offer a transit option to people who would otherwise be sitting on log-jammed expressways. Odd hour commuters generally have lighter traffic and speedier comutes than rush hour commuters.

[onemanarmy]

Originally Posted by atlantagreg30127

Well, that's kind of like saying, "Why shouldn't my cab fare be the same whether I'm going 2 miles or 8 miles, if the cab is going in the direction I am anyway?". You KNOW that's not gonna happen. If the cab is going from point A to point B whether you're in the cab or not, and you hob in the cab, the driver is still going to charge you for the distance you've gone, even if he was headed in that direction anyway regardless of if you're in the car or not.

Zone fares are actually pretty common. Even in my smaller home town of Charleston, WV where we have no rail, our city bus system (KRT) charges zone fares. There is a "base fare" that covers you within a certain range, but if you're traveling outside of that range you pay more depending on how much further out you go. Pretty common practice, actually.

I don't think I'm saying that at all and I think your analogy is a little misleading. I fairer comparision would be if you and I took a metered cab from one location to another, if I got off 1/2 way between two points and you continued to the final destination the fare would be the exact same in almost every case. I can understand why smaller towns would introduce zone fare, but almost every major city has an unlimited ridership cards.

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by JPD

People who work odd hours are not the target market for a commuter rail system. The main purpose of a commuter rail system is to offer a transit option to people who would otherwise be sitting on log-jammed expressways. Odd hour commuters generally have lighter traffic and speedier comutes than rush hour commuters.

Not my point...

You can be a commuter who usually commutes during normal rush hours, but sometimes has to change their schedule to come home early or go somewhere else. A parent who may suddenly need to pick up their child at school or daycare may fit into that category. So if commuter rail only goes one way in the morning or afternoon, or has really bad scheduling during mid-day, it's not easy for that kind of commuter to rely on it.

[JPD]

Originally Posted by neil0311

Not my point...

You can be a commuter who usually commutes during normal rush hours, but sometimes has to change their schedule to come home early or go somewhere else. A parent who may suddenly need to pick up their child at school or daycare may fit into that category. So if commuter rail only goes one way in the morning or afternoon, or has really bad scheduling during mid-day, it's not easy for that kind of commuter to rely on it.

In that case, I guess until we come up with the perfect solution we'll stick with the status quo, which has long since proven to be a total failure. (I'm sure that's not yourt point, either )

MY point is, we need to build something...RIGHT NOW. We'll get closer to being able to accommodate everyone's needs as time goes on and the various systems expand and interconnect.