180 Peachtree (Atlanta, Carlton, Carl: fit in, hotels, neighborhood)

[chip1980]

©2008 The Peachtree Retail Group

[atlantagreg30127]

Chip - maybe a description was in order because if a moderator from another room who isn't familiar with this project came in they might think it's an advertisement and delete it.

But I'm aware of this project. Personally glad they're doing something with this property downtown, but if the developers don't make the exact right decisions on who they let in (or not) it's going to be a hard sell. Atlanta isn't exactly a "downtown" city yet.

[MMANN]

I think a grocery store would do pretty good here. I think restaraunts should be mostly avoided because they could turn into drinking establishments, which would lead to crime, which would make the place go under. I say a grocery on one side, and maybe a CVS and maybe one restaurant, but it would need to be VERY pricey to keep the riff raff that hangs in the area out of the place. Actually, i think every tenant in here needs to be pricey, so maybe a Whole Foods or Fresh Market. I dont know if they would be interested in this area though... but if its not pricey the whole thing could go under due to the riff raff around it being pulled in.

They were smart by making it an indoor orientation, for that area is not ready for street level stores with thier own entrances.

[PeteyNice]

The people behind this did a presentation at the downtown neighborhood assoc meeting in June. I was not impressed. They said that a supermarket is out (which IMHO is what that area really needs if it ever wants people to move there). I got the impression it will be primarily be a bunch of restaurants aimed at tourists and business people. Disappointing as I was hoping for things that appeal to residents.

[atlantagreg30127]

Originally Posted by PeteyNice

The people behind this did a presentation at the downtown neighborhood assoc meeting in June. I was not impressed. They said that a supermarket is out (which IMHO is what that area really needs if it ever wants people to move there). I got the impression it will be primarily be a bunch of restaurants aimed at tourists and business people.

Wow - amazing how little thought goes into these types of projects.

There are plenty of restaurants downtown as it is now to handle the tourists that are there, as well as daytime business owners. Many restaurants make their "operating" money during their lunch rushes - and their profits during dinner. Where then, will the DINNER patrons come from in numbers to support this type of development filled with restaurants? Guess they didn't think of that part. Hopefully anyone who wants to open a restaurant will have enough experience to realize it, too.

Personally I don't think an actual Publix or CVS or anything like that would fit in like some think - but a "boutique" type of market, even if somewhat expensive, would draw in residents and tourists alike. Something more in line with a Fresh-Market type of concept.

[CityFan]

Originally Posted by atlantagreg30127

Personally I don't think an actual Publix or CVS or anything like that would fit in like some think - but a "boutique" type of market, even if somewhat expensive, would draw in residents and tourists alike. Something more in line with a Fresh-Market type of concept.

I agree with your first part that a Publix or CVS wouldn't fit in very well; but I am concerned about the your second thought about a boutique type of market. We have one in Underground which is a failure in my eyes. I think the developer needs to create a place where people like to hang out and have something interesting visitors, residents and business people and it has to be unique which is not like midtown, Buckhead or Underground. The place needs to be clean, safe, inviting and not very expensive so that many people including college students can afford at least part of it. City of Atlanta needs to clean up and maintain this place with on site cops or security guards, who will make homeless and bad guys uncomfortable and eventually leave the place. IMO, if there are enough security guards patrol at Underground, homeless and street guys will feel very uncomfortable to be there. Look at the front of McDonald's. A lot of homeless or street guys hang out there at all times. If you have 3 security guards standing there, those people will go away.

[Atlantasfinest]

The renderings look like an updated version of The Peachtree Center Shopping Center to me ...very dissapointing to say the least...

[JPD]

Originally Posted by atlantagreg30127

Where then, will the DINNER patrons come from in numbers to support this type of development filled with restaurants?

Um, this place is right across the street from the Ritz-Carlton and the Ellis hotel. And it is right next door to the Westin.

[atlantagreg30127]

Originally Posted by JPD

Um, this place is right across the street from the Ritz-Carlton and the Ellis hotel. And it is right next door to the Westin.

If you're the only show in town, then three hotels might be able to sustain you to a degree. But there are other restaurants in the area competing for the business of those and the other smaller hotels in the area, and of course if you're not GOOD, then no one will eat there anyway. Until downtown has more touristy attractions that bring in even more people just for that reason, I don't think oversaturating the area with more restaurants helps any of them. A good number of years ago when I was younger, I bartended at a restaurant that was right next to the Fox theater, as well as within walking distance of a couple of hotels. It still went under. Competition plus the management not being PERFECT in their decisions caused failure. Location doesn't guarantee success, especially when there are others looking to pick over the people who are there.

[atlantagreg30127]

Originally Posted by CityFan

I agree with your first part that a Publix or CVS wouldn't fit in very well; but I am concerned about the your second thought about a boutique type of market. We have one in Underground which is a failure in my eyes.

Yes, but look at what tourists have to wade through in order to get to Underground from the hotel district a few blocks North. Dozens of bums asleep in the park and on the side of the sidewalks or near fountains. Street preachers. Groups of teens saying "MF" every third word as they "hang" for no reason. It takes a lot for a place to be a huge success in Underground - not because of the facility itself - but because of the septic tank of vagrants who surround it on the streets who have taken over the Five Points area.

The one thing at least that 180 Peachtree does have going for it, is that it's surrounded by restaurants, hotels, and another mall. It's in a more sanitized area of Peachtree where multiple businesses there keep the vagrants (or most of them at least) at bay by working together. The businesses at Five Points don't really seem to care.

Originally Posted by CityFan

City of Atlanta needs to clean up and maintain this place with on site cops or security guards, who will make homeless and bad guys uncomfortable and eventually leave the place. IMO, if there are enough security guards patrol at Underground, homeless and street guys will feel very uncomfortable to be there. Look at the front of McDonald's. A lot of homeless or street guys hang out there at all times. If you have 3 security guards standing there, those people will go away.

In 2005 the city adopted the "No Panhandling" law which was never enforced. At least twice since, they've had "clean ups" which resulted in nothing but a PR campaign. Now they're using hidden cameras on cops to catch aggressive panhandlers. Whoop. It will result in nothing. The people and businesses of Five Points need to take matters into their own hands. They need to pool together and hire private security by reputable companies that have people who spend their entire day walking around the various businesses in that area, who push out the vagrants and preachers and discourage gangs of teens from bothering people. It will take a private effort like that, not the City, to make that area work. CNN security handles Centennial Park pretty well - a good example of how private can do better than a City.

Hopefully 180 Peachtree is making these observasions too, and won't rely on the City to keep their facility free of problems.