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Old 01-31-2007, 07:35 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
2,290 posts, read 4,952,392 times
Reputation: 784

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I'm not sure, but I think that means that the City received a cool $1 million to talk about how bad the traffic is. And, as in most other metro areas with poor planning, by the time a new Master Plan is finalized, it's usually obsolete. Suffice it to say; any Master Plan that doesn't include significant use of heavy rail for relieving traffic coming in to the City, probably isn't a serious and viable plan. Just more politicians talking.
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Old 01-31-2007, 10:17 AM
 
Location: ITP
2,133 posts, read 5,499,894 times
Reputation: 1333
Cheers Backfist--It's usually a bunch of politicians talking despite the good work that urban planners and consultants do. As an urban planning consultant myself, I am speaking from experience. I can show you the original plans for MARTA that were made in the 1960s and you will see that there are still several lines missing with no intention of being completed.

I remember from your earlier posts that you said that you were from Denver. I may be relocating to the area in the near future and one of the major plusses of moving to Denver is the fact that everybody in the region, both intown and suburbs, voted to dramatically expand their transit systems and introduce several new light-rail lines, commuter heavy-rail lines, and bus rapid transit lines over the next 10 years.

...and in the meantime, what is the Georgia legislature working on at the present moment...ensuring our right to say "Merry Christmas".

...incredible indeed.
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Old 01-31-2007, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
2,290 posts, read 4,952,392 times
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Exactly. The demand for more commuter rail has to come from those who need it the most. Unfortunately, the politicians of those most affected have convinced them that state government needs to address morals, values, and Merry Christmas issues, rather than the worst traffic in the nation.
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Old 01-31-2007, 02:05 PM
 
1,088 posts, read 5,738,369 times
Reputation: 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by south-to-west View Post
Cheers Backfist--It's usually a bunch of politicians talking despite the good work that urban planners and consultants do. As an urban planning consultant myself, I am speaking from experience. I can show you the original plans for MARTA that were made in the 1960s and you will see that there are still several lines missing with no intention of being completed.

I remember from your earlier posts that you said that you were from Denver. I may be relocating to the area in the near future and one of the major plusses of moving to Denver is the fact that everybody in the region, both intown and suburbs, voted to dramatically expand their transit systems and introduce several new light-rail lines, commuter heavy-rail lines, and bus rapid transit lines over the next 10 years.

...and in the meantime, what is the Georgia legislature working on at the present moment...ensuring our right to say "Merry Christmas".

...incredible indeed.
The Georgia Legislature does do something other then ignore transit systems. They actively work to prevent it. A bill pasted last year will require state legislative approval before any further state funding for commuter rail makes it virtually impossible for expansion of commuter rail lines. Are you telling me that our conservative state legislature with many representatives from rural areas are going to vote to provide money for commuter rail? I don't think so.
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Old 01-31-2007, 04:15 PM
 
Location: ITP
2,133 posts, read 5,499,894 times
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XXman--Very true. The state legislature does their damndest to prevent any sort of investment in public transportation in Metro Atlanta. The biggest obstacles overall to a comprehensive public transport system are:

1) The GA state constitution prohibits GDOT from using any gas tax revenues on anything other than roads and bridges. Thus MARTA is the only major public transport system that is not supported by a state government.

2) Metro Atlanta is the most balkanized metropolitan area in the country with 20 counties and 80+ municipalities, with each county and city having "home-rule. The regional commision, ARC, is very weak and the governor will not use the Georgia Regional Transportation Authority to its capability.

I love this city, but I really can't stand the balkanized nature of the region. It's estimated that the region will add 2 million more people by 2030. It seems like this whole metro area will implode if these problems go ignored.
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Old 01-31-2007, 07:50 PM
 
27 posts, read 154,433 times
Reputation: 25
Default Never Gonna Happen

Quote:
Originally Posted by atlantagreg30127 View Post
In case anyone missed it, not long ago once he was reappointed, Governor Perdue pretty much said indirectly that his newly proposed budget does NOT include ANY new funds for any kind of mass transit expansion in the Atlanta metro region.

I think he's sticking in a couple billion for expanding roads, adding roads, etc., but he made it very clear he's completely uninterested in mass transit projects. On one of the news channels a [very nerdy] representative said that they, "saw no real proof the region needs more money put into mass transit projects". He didn't LOOK like he was high on crack, but that's what they think.

You can read one such quote in this report: http://www.11alive.com/news/article_news.aspx?storyid=90658 (broken link)

Hey folks - you all elected him a second term. So consider *ANY* mass transit expansions on stall for four more years, and REMEMBER this next time you're stuck in traffic and the next elections roll around, ok?
Mass Transit of any kind is not going to happen in the Atlanta Metro area in our lifetimes. Might as well just accept it. It has been discussed for many years and no progress has been made. The northern suburbs are petrified that all the criminals in Atlanta(read that as young black men) will hop on it, ride out and burgle their homes and then ride home again. That perception has not changed in all these years. I see no impetus for it to change in the future. Then you have the problem of the road-building lobbies who have most of the legislators in their hip pocket. You put those two things together and you are stalemated.
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Old 02-01-2007, 01:58 AM
 
279 posts, read 338,581 times
Reputation: 79
nashville just started the first leg of their new commuter rail system called the "music city star". It was very cheap to start using existing train tracks, and will eventually fan out in every direction. I wonder what's different there.
I think a major problem is human psychology...people who spend 30,000 for a car want to drive it to work, not sit in a subway car with strangers.
The arguement about trains bringing criminals is a very old one, they said that about marta. However, it is a fact that soon as the lenox square marta subway station opened the mall had a huge increase in crime such as shoplifting, car break-ins, robberies etc...
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Old 02-01-2007, 06:39 AM
 
1,756 posts, read 4,924,816 times
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Well, being that I've traveled to many different cities. And the fact that I was born and raised in North Cobb County, I don't think mass transit would really help that much here in Atlanta, even if the residents wanted it.

Atlanta is so spread out. Unless you work right off one of the rails, with in a block or two, most people wouldn't use it. Public Transportation works well in Manhattan but not on Long Island, only people who work in the city use the rail. Yeah that's alot but traffic on Long Island it is horrible where most people work.

Manhattan is also only 2 miles wide and 14 miles long, small area. Metro Atlanta is huge. It would take forever and a day to put rail in that would make sense, b/c you'd also need about 20X the buses and routes we have now for when people get off the train.
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Old 02-01-2007, 11:00 AM
 
Location: ITP
2,133 posts, read 5,499,894 times
Reputation: 1333
In regards to rail and crime, I don't think Lenox and Phipps are exactly hurting for business since MARTA arrived there. Also, it seems that areas of Cobb, Gwinnett, and Clayton have done a decent job of attracting a lot of crime without transit. There's just no correlation...and if there is, it's fairly negligible.

New York has a subway, but they also have commuter rail that services suburbs on Long Island, in Westchester County, as well as in Connecticut and New Jersey as well. Chicago, Washington, Baltimore, and Philadelphia also all have commuter rail. The new Trinity railway in Dallas is doing very well also. Implementing circulator buses that service major commuter rail stops and ferries commuters to their respective places of work wouldn't be such a bad idea. Also, commuter rail presents the opportunity to guide development patterns towards transit lines, jsut as freeways shaped development patterns. Developments around Lindbergh Center, the Dunwoody station, and the Sandy Springs station are good examples of this.

When you look at major metropolitan areas of 3 million+ in the Western industrialized world, the vast majority of them have some sort of comprehensive public transport system. It's a shame that Metro Atlanta chooses to remain behind the times.
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Old 02-01-2007, 11:04 AM
LLD
 
Location: Fairfax County, VA
654 posts, read 2,775,599 times
Reputation: 209
Great post south-west. It is a bit disheartening to read that some think nothing will happen with commuter rail in our lifetimes. I hope that is wrong.

If there are so many transplants in the Atlanta area as I keep reading about across various threads, and many of them come from areas where there is good public transporation via rail and buses etc, isn't it possible that something will happen because they will vote in people that will tackle this issue?
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